Listings for 16 PIERCE BODINE
Related 16 PIERCE BODINE information
J*stmyluck said: So here is my problem I sent pony away to be started undersaddle. I did all his ground work and sat on him couple of times before he left and the trainer was definately pleased with his ground work. He went to the trainer becuse when I ask him to go faster in a more forward walk he bolted on me. I dont think it was an I dont want to so much as it scared him like he realized I was going to move with him. Anyway I DO NOT do bolters so he went to the trainer. Trainer started him in a deep sand round pen and we was sucessfully doing WTC in there and he took him in to their big field and started riding him. He was good from what I saw but he always tired/road him out in the round pen. I started riding him a week before I picked him up riding in the round pen was good but riding in the feild he had a little trouble steering. Nothing that me and my instructor/ trainer at home couldnt polish up. So got him home he has been really good since lunges beautifully, nice WTC in the round pen and a beautiful whoa(like you say the W sound or sit deep and close the front wall and he sits and stops) and we have been WT in the feilds doing wide sweeping circles and some really large spirals to work on our steering and all is good. So hes been home almost 3 weeks and yesterday I thought we needed to phase out the round pen he gets bored going around in circles, not to mention most of it was underwater from all our rain. So I lunge hims in the feild I want to ride him in and is smaller maybe 2 acre max he lunges perfectly. I get on we are walking around and his pace is great unlike when we start in teh round pen he is super sluggish. Explore the field at the walk do some large circles ect. So then I ask him to trot, trot down the long side and ask for an immediate whoa and hes a little slow to stop. We walk on and I ask him to trot down the short side and we are going good but he WILL not turn and we are approaching the fence fast because his trot is speeding up still will not turn, neck is stiff as a board. So I ask him to whoa nope nothing so I ask firmer and he takes off full blown gallop, like I said I do not do bolters. But this time I can think, so i let go of his face sit back and we come to a fast yet controled canter. Except now we are headed towards the gate and the gate is on a section of fence that is literally a foot from a gigantic barn. I still have noo steering be we are controlled for the most part with our speed. I ask him to whoa before we get to the barn and we reenter our bolt and panic stage. Ok oh shit we are going to run smack into the side of this barn. Still not turning I lean hard throw all my weight to his right side and try to get him to turn. Nope he turned left instead and off I came just missed the wall too. I'm not going to lie it was a bad fall I'm purple on him right side thought I broke my hip and I destroyed my helmet. I mad because he didnt get punished right away because i was the only one at the barn and I layed in the feild for an hour then crawled into the tack room and called the BO who was on their way home to come help me. First mistake riding a green horse alone. However I am proud of two things, that is the longest I've ever stayed on a bolter, and I had managed to be able to rate his speed and could actually think through the whole thing. What do I do? He he spooked himself once in the RP and took off and I made him run and run and run and run some more and he hasnt bolted in the RP since. I cant make him run in the field if I have no steering. SO the thing is to get him to stop but if i have no brakes? He is going sooo fast that I feel that the pully rein would take us to the ground. He has a french link in his mouth that is copper based and he foams like a GPrix horse. Had his teeth done the week before he went to the trainer. He is six years old hadnt been really messed with until I got him, kind of spoiled I dont spoil him at all. Hes a 14.2 Welsh Cob cross. I'm talking to my trainer (the only reason she isnt his trainer too is because she just had a baby and didnt want to ride a green green horse) and his trainer about ideas and things to try. Just wondering what you all think might be a good idea to try. I cant have enough things on the table to try. =) Thanks.
C*tOnLap said: wow! so sorry you got hurt and so glad you survived. Chalk another life up to a good helmet. you mention pulley rein, and perhaps a so called "one rein stop" is something to practice as well. Any bolter I've ridden generally doesn't get more than 6 or 7 strides before the one rein stop gets them. But that was AFTER I rode a lot of OTTB's in my youth and had to untrain the racing in them. Nothing like experience. Also, you said it, always have company around when riding a green horse.
jc*tton said: How long did your horse stay with the breaking trainer? What did you do with your horse before you sent him to the breaking trainer. What do you call or define as ground work? My preparation for getting on my youngsters consists of ponying them so get used to being next to a broke horse (ponyed in a halter to start and then a bridle under the halter, depending on the situation might have reins on the bit). Some work in the round pen to learn voice commands. walk, trot and WHOA!!! And then move on to ground driving to learn steering outside of the roundpen. I ground drive over poles, around trees, through mudholes, waterjumps, tarps.....everything I can expose the youngster to. Also giving small vacations to let them process what they have done--a week off every now and then. The patience tree is an integral part of training. Before I actually get on them, I make sure they are not worried with me being up on a muck tub or mounting block from either side. When I actually get on them I will be mounting from both sides as well as dismounting, too.
D*nkey said: I am glad you are ok. That sure sounds like a nasty fall. After I had survived a nasty bolt, my trainer said to me (I'm paraphrasing) - In some situations it's either you or the horse (that's going to get hurt), if you're in danger make sure it isn't going to be you so take out their back teeth! That comment plus the bolting incident put me in the right frame of mind the next time my horse tried it. NO mercy for dangerous bolting antics! But be fair and only perform dental work when you are in imminent danger. WWID? - Figure out why he bolted (herd bound, scared of rider on back etc) and address that with groundwork. Stop riding in the field until steering is established. Consider having more pro rides on him. Assume he will test you again. Ride under supervision of trainer (in field) until the test happens so someone on the ground can talk you through it. Alternatively take him to an exercise track so that if\when he bolts there are no walls to run into.
c*ddym said: I had a horse to ride that would put his nose up in the air and take off - with THAT horse draw reins worked wonders. The draw reins would be slack until he took off. When he tried to take off with the draw reins, he couldn't get his nose in the air and the situation was easily ended. If YOUR horse is more chin to chest, this may very well not help you
tw*fatponies said: It can be pretty easy for a horse to "backslide" into previous behaviors. Can you ask the trainer who worked on this pony what exactly he did to work on the whoa? One clue is that the pony "was a little slow to stop" when you asked him to whoa before the bolting happened. That's probably a moment where the trainer would have gone a little deeper and reinforced "you'll f-in stop when I say so" rather than tolerate even one step of disobedience. Ask the trainer to review his/her technique with you, or send the pony back for more remedial work and participate in it yourself, so you can see exactly how that gets dealt with?
J*stmyluck said: His ground work was 3 solid months. It started from learning to tie, to learning to lunge. Solid WTC and one hell of a whoa was put on him. He lunges out of the round pen perfectly. Stands like a rock to get mounted, hes been ground driven all over the property, lunged all over the property. I jumped on and all around him. Had unbrellas flags ect. been desensitized. Can get on him from anywhere ground or blocks. He will definatly be spending time at the patience tree cause I wont be able to get back on for a while. He was with the trainer for 30 days which seems like a short time but since the ground work was solid, he had no problem getting him used to people riding. Everyone I know was impressed with his progress and thought he was ready to come home. He is definately a well respected trainer and works under one of the tip top people in the area. The trainer had him in an eggbutt snaffle, I have him in an eggbutt frenchlink. Should I go back to the snaffle? The more I asked for a whoa the faster he went. So I dont necessarily want to go harder because I could see him just getting more pissed instead of "oh damn this hurts lets stop". Also If I dont ride in the field how do I work on steering at increased gaits? Out round pen is to small for me to be able to circle or do small figure 8's in. So I push him into a fast canter in the round pen and practice the pulley rein? One of my biggest fears is causing us to fall together. As for pro rides yes I have access to riders, but I always feel bad asking hey horse is a bolter wanna ride him? Like CatonLap said, nothing like experiance because I can shut a bucking bronc down in a second, which comes from my past experiances.
J*stmyluck said: If YOUR horse is more chin to chest, this may very well not help you Hes more of a neck straight out in front and locked position. The the more I asked him to turn the stiffer he got. I'm not comfortable riding in draw reins would a running help me in this situation because If I pulled back on the one rein in the direction I wished to turn in a way the pressure would increase, right? As for the letting him get away with it once, yes that was definately one of my first mistakes. However when he wouldnt do it again I slammed on the breaks and thats what initiated the situation. I've already called the trainer and am waiting on him to call me back. Going back is a SERIOUS consideration at the moment. However pony never offered to bolt one time with him. I almost want to amke sure who he goes to, pushs him to his limit and makes him bolt and then shuts him down immediately. So in a way I guess he was trained with out ever having to deal with the bolting issue. Edit to add: He is definately more of a reactive type brain then a thinker. Would a calming supplement help at all cause in my humble opinion he is hot for a pony? Im just thinking of EVERYTHING!
*uventera Two said: A couple of things that came to mind for me. 1. You said he "had his teeth done" but does that mean a really good exam with sedation, speculum and ample time spent inspecting each tooth? Or does that mean a 5 minute manual float by the vet? In my experience, the two are nowhere near being the same thing. And along that line - certain horses just hate certain bits. Or they hate bits period. Or they want the bit loose in the mouth, or they want it tighter. Sometimes it takes some experimentation to get the setup right for the individual horse. And sometimes they hate poll pressure, or they hate bar pressure, or tongue pressure. Andre hates a certain bridle I have with thin straps. The pressure is too concentrated on straps that are too skinny. He likes big, thick, and padded. You might have to experiment with different bridles to find what your horse is truly comfortable in. 2. You HAVE to teach the one rein stop to youngsters. You just have to. And a one rein stop does not mean just hauling on one rein. It means disengaging the hindquarters so the horse physically CANNOT keep running. It shuts their engine down and gets you back in control. You need to use a trainer to help you teach this, and it has to be taught correctly, starting with you on the ground in a halter and lead or the bridle. Here is one of my mare's first rides. I got a trainer to help teach the ORS right away so I'd always have a backup emergency brake if needed. http://www.hphoofcare.com/TrainingORS.jpg She taught me how to use SEAT and LEG to teach the hindquarters to cross over. It has so little to do with hauling on one rein and so much to do with seat and leg cues to influence the hindquarter. 3. You mentioned him being hot. I have one of those but being hot (reactive, sensitive, forward) is not the same thing as being dangerous and stupid - bolting, bucking, rearing, out of control stuff. What is his diet and turnout situation like? Too much food and not enough work and turnout is a recipe for disaster. 4. Saddle fit! In my experience, just having a good sweat pattern isn't enough. Saddle fit can be really tricky. It may be that the horse can tolerate a pinch or a poke for 20 minutes, or 30 minutes, but after 40 minutes he just can't handle it anymore and feels he has to get away. And finally - I live by an old John Lyons quote: Ride where you can. Not where you can't. If you can ride safely and happily in the round pen, then stay there for the time being. Don't overface him with a big open field and an hour of riding in it. He might be able to mentally handle wide open spaces for a few minutes but after awhile he might just get overwhelmed. Ride him in the round pen for 30 minutes, then only 5 minutes in the open field. You said your RP is under water right now so that will be tough but do what you can. Expand the comfort zone slowly. You said pony never bolted with trainer. Was trainer riding in the wide open spaces? Maybe trainer has a more confident seat and leg? Maybe trainer could read the horse's body language enough to know when he was about to have trouble and did something different before pony "snapped." I'm just throwing out random ideas to consider. I'm not saying any of these things ARE the problem :)
*uventera Two said: So I push him into a fast canter in the round pen and practice the pulley rein? One of my biggest fears is causing us to fall together. OMG NO! That is absolutely the wrong thing to do. That is not how you teach an emergency stop. See my post above. An emergency stop is all about the HINDQUARTERS and influencing them with your seat and leg. Yes you use the rein to direct the SHOULDER (NOT the head!) but you don't just reef the head around the side and hope you don't fall down. I worked with a certified John Lyons trainer to learn how to teach my horses the ORS. You start on the ground with only a halter and lead or the bridle and bit. (JL people prefer the bridle and bit. I say it doesn't matter.) Anyway, the horse has to be focused and on the aids, listening to the bridle cues. Halt, back, lateral, step forward. Holding the lead or reins in your left hand, maintain a slight loop so the horse has some freedom to move. Cue the horse with the right hand to step OVER with the hindquarters, away from you. Keep the lead slack unless the horse walks forward instead of over, in which case they will create their own pressure. Practice this to both sides so that the horse knows how to step over with the inside hind leg so it crosses in front of the outside hind leg. (Break these sessions up over days so you don't over-drill.) Be sure to reward heavily. You progress to the point that you can ever so slightly lift the rein or lead on the inside, touch the horse's side to cue for the hindquarter to step over, and the horse bends and softens the SHOULDER, while stepping over with the inside hind. They HAVE to give the shoulder - not just turn the neck and head. A horse doesn't go where the head points - a horse goes where the SHOULDER points. Once you progress to the saddle, practice this from a halt, then a walk, and only practice from a trot or canter once the horse is WELL established at halt and walk. Be sure to reward heavily with a complete release from pressure, a soft word and scratch on the crest or withers. I've trained both my Arabs to saddle from the ground up and I still practice the ORS on both horses almost every ride. Just once to each side from the walk to keep the movement fresh in the horse's mind. Sidepassing down a cavalleti pole on the ground is perfect practice. Front feet on one side, hind feet on the other, and move down the length of the cavalleti. I have had to use it out on the trail more than once and it is a godsend when you need breaks NOW and you're in a bad situation. And FWIW, I think the term "one rein stop" is a little misleading. It's not just about stopping, it's about redirecting the shoulder and the hindquarter so the horse HAS to circle and can't keep running forward. Jockeys gallop with considerable pressure on the reins. You can haul on a horse's bit until you break their jaw or your arm falls off but that doesn't mean you can stop them with a bit. I don't think there's a bit in the world that can stop a panicked horse. But if you can cross one hind leg over the other and turn the shoulder, you WILL go in a circle and shut the horse down. It's so difficult to describe in type but so much easier and makes much more sense in person.
J*stmyluck said: Teeth have been done by an excellent vet, full sedation, speculum and power floats. They are pristine. We will work on the one rein stop, I've been taught it but can never think to use it. I hit panic mode too so we will definately work on this. In the round pen. Yup yup! Turn out 12 hours a day in a huge field with buddies and lots of grass. He is top dog in the field though. I talked to BO about turning him out with the mares to knock him down a peg. It really seemed to help my TB when he was in a bratty stage. He eats half a scoop of grain and half a scoop of beet pulp. Grain could definately be switched to something less prone to make him hot. I'll deal with that tomorrow. Saddle seems to fit perfect. I know you said sweat marks cant be it all but they are literally the most perfect sweat marks I have ever seen. Lastly I have been riding him in the round pen and then venturing out for like 5 minutes, 10 minutes, 20 and the last time we were walking and trotting around for a good 30, with no problems steering. So well defiantely work on the one rein in the round pen once I feel im strong enough to ride, and we can probably elimiate most of the grain and put him on something else. I'm making myself a list. So should I try a loose ring snaffle and a running?
J*stmyluck said: Ok so are you asking like a slight turn on the forhand or do you want the whole body to go over? So I'm standing facing the horse and use my right hand to push his hip over. I'm trying to imagine this.
*uventera Two said: It sure sounds like you're on the right track and you've done your homework! You'll probably look back at this in no time and remember it with fond nostalgia and the bolting will be a thing of the past :) I like the idea of turning out with some mares. It might make some improvement in him. For feed I like beet pulp, ground flax, rice bran, and black oil sunflower and SmartVite to provide vit/min. Ultium is a lower starch performance feed if you needed a little more in terms of calories. The molasses and corn/oats based grains can be upwards of 50% carbohydrates versus the Ultium at 16%. You could also use a low starch ration balancer or Wellsolve L/S is 11% NSC. Edited to add: You can use something like rice bran oil for added calories without the sugar. But remember that calories = energy. And "hotness" comes from too many calories/energy and not enough work to expend it. I am so sorry you got hurt. Reading your story gave me chills. It's everyone's worst nightmare to come off a galloping horse. Take care of yourself and I hope you heal up quickly! :) Somone on here has a signature line that says - pony is a 4 letter word. LOL
*uventera Two said: Ok so are you asking like a slight turn on the forhand or do you want the whole body to go over? So I'm standing facing the horse and use my right hand to push his hip over. I'm trying to imagine this. Yes! This is the dressage board so turn on the forehand is probably the more correct verbiage. :lol: Sorry. You face the horse and essentially ask for a turn on the forehand. But I'm not sure about the term "push" the hip over. You want the horse to be light and responsive. You may have to start with a push if your horse is a little less responsive. You can use a dressage whip to back up your request to MOVE away from pressure if needed. With these sensitive Arabs I didn't need to go to that so I'm not that experienced with what happens if they refuse to move the hip over. The trainer told me to not worry at first if the cues are a bit clunky and the response sloppy. You perfect it later.
k*tarine said: I would put him in a fullcheek so you can lay the left side of that bit against the left side of his muzzle and declare you will, by God, turn RIGHT. Ride him in normal reins. Throw in a set of draw reins as well, attached to the girth where it's buckled to the billets. These are to be ignored while you ride. They are there to double his braced neck in two, bringing that nose around slam to your left knee whilst your left lower leg enforces you, by God, yield those hindquarters to the right, and NOW. what A2 described is a great idea to teach him while you heal up and get your mind right. He MUST yield those hindquarters and politely yield his face, too. Make that job #1, buying draw reins job 2. I bet you scared him and he scared himself, I wouldn't get on him without them as my back up get that nose while he's still just trotting..you bet. or send him back for 60 days and that better include riding out, hauling off the property, testing his sense.
J*stmyluck said: See ok I was thinking about the full cheek but I was also thinking the loose ring wont allow him to brace. But I could totally see me trying to haul his ass around and the bit going straight through his mouth. Also I am not comfortable with draw reins in the least bit. Like I ask before would a running martingale be of any assistance? He will step both his shoulders over and his hind end if you wiggle the dressage whip beside him while you are in front of him. However we have never incorperated reins in this equation so guess what we are doing tomorrow. =)
r*dhorse5 said: I would not ride him again. Send him to competent trainer and let him stay until all these issues are solved. You really don't want to get hurt and you really don't want to retard his training by doing the wrong thing erratically. He will only get more confused and the retraining will be much harder - and much more expensive.
m*rrygoround said: An Australian free ring, or Fulmer snaffle, has a full cheek but is also a free ring. It does require "keepers" to keep it in position, and be aware that the cheeks have an up and down to them.
J*stmyluck said: I would not ride him again. Send him to competent trainer and let him stay until all these issues are solved. You really don't want to get hurt and you really don't want to retard his training by doing the wrong thing erratically. He will only get more confused and the retraining will be much harder - and much more expensive. I've gotta do something with him while I rebuild my training funds. Im not going to let him sit in a pasture doing nothing, because I feel as if he is the type to definately fall out of his training if it is not maintained. So we'll see how his remedial ground work goes and how hes looking when I feel strong enough to get back on and how he appears to be at that stage. =)
Sm*rtAlex said: How to teach the one rein stop: http://www.sunsetfarmsaddlebreds.com/trainer%20tips.htm scroll to the very bottom for trainer's tip #1
J*stmyluck said: How to teach the one rein stop: http://www.sunsetfarmsaddlebreds.com/trainer%20tips.htm scroll to the very bottom for trainer's tip #1 So some of those videos were really cool. You get in the mind set and you forget some of the basics your supposed to be doing. Thanks so much for the link.
N*MIOMI1 said: Remember, for every person that tells you what THEY would do, there are probably um, 2% who would actually get on a bolter of this caliber. Mind did fine with some people, not with others, I got tired of guessing when we'd "have problems". I have ridden bolters I could muscle to a stop and ones that I could not. The could not were GIVEN to a trainer that could ride him/her, they are doing great now but its been a couple of years with this trainer. Not my deal, to put a horse in training that long.
J*stmyluck said: See I dont know if it is that bad? I mean it scared the shit out of me but I dont know if its as bad as I describe it? I think it was bad but no one can confirm it with me cause you know I was alone. I want to definately work on trying to correct the issue because he really is a nice nice horse. I feel as if I can drop him in his level we'd be good. After I rode him in the round pen when he spooked and I asserted my dominance with various growls and I made him keep running until he wanted to stop and then made him keep going. That was one of our best rides after that little incident it was nothing more then yes mama, no mama and how high mama.
dr*ssurpferd01 said: You have my sympathies, I hate bolters. Though I'm pretty sure I hate rear'ers worse right now...
m*upatdoes said: In my experience, the trick to stopping a bolter is to catch it on stride ONE. For example, you said that he was a little slow to listen to a downward transition before he bolted. Well, normally I am pretty nice to every horse I ride but if I am on a known bolter and he tries to get a little past me during a downward transition that is when I put my feet on the dashboard, stand up against them to pull harder, and DRAW AN ELEVEN IN THE GROUND WITH HIS BACK LEGS. I don't care if he is just mildly sassing a downward t-w transition. It ENDS, NOW. Same deal the INSTANT he gets a little past my seat in the canter. The split second that his canter gets a little faster than waiting politely for my seat, even if he is still basically under control, ELEVEN. IMMEDIATELY. Maybe we make it two strides before we draw an eleven. Oh well. Two strides, eleven. Ask again. Two strides. Eleven. Ask again. Two strides... until he canters politely and waits COMPLETELY OFF YOUR HAND. He is not allowed to GET CLOSE to your hand. Or he draws an eleven. Obviously it is extremely rare to have to ride in such a dominating fashion. Maybe one percent of all horses require this much of a ride ever in their lives. But, for those that do, don't hold back. Give them something to really think about for a ride or two and then everyone can go on their merry way again. I do believe that most bolts start way before the bolt starts, if you know what I mean, and that most bolts once started can be stopped in STRIDE ONE if you stand up in your stirrups and draw that eleven with every ounce of strength in your body. Be on his pace like white on rice and the SECOND he tries to sneak past you NAIL HIS HEINIE into the ground with no pity. You can make nicey nice again when he isn't trying to kill you. ETA it was nothing more then yes mama, no mama and how high mama. That's the spirit!
CHT said: I dislike round pens. They allow for holes in the training program. Tiring a horse before you ride him? Not a good training concept in my book. I dissagree with the "let him get away with it" concept. I don't think horse's like bolting...they are in PANIC mode. Not a pleasant feeling. he is likely as shaken up as you are. It sounds like the horse knows the aids to whoa, so not sure that is where the hole in the training is, rather it sounds like the horse doesn't know how to deal with feelings of tension, excitement, nervousness or? who knows what set him off. I would go back to ground work with this horse, and pay more attention to his posture. Find ways to make him feel pressure (his head will come up and his back will tense), and then give him a head down command, or flex to one side, to help him come down from the pressure. Things like backing over plywood boards or through labryinths, walking over platforms/bridges, attaching a bag to the saddle so it flops when he trots/canters....or attaching water bottles filled with pebbles to the saddle so the bump him and rattle. Do these things in a controlled environment, with the idea that as soon as you see him develope a tense posture, you bring him down to a walk/halt, and give him the head down command, or flex him and then give him praise. The idea isn't to punish, or desensitize...it is to give him the tools to deal with stress. I would also spend serious time massaging him, and looking for sore/tight muscles. When I get a bolter in for training, they almost always have very sore muscles just in front of their shoulder/withers....so it hurts them when they go to drop their head. Little wonder they bolt when their rider pulls their head it...it HURTS! Massaging the area to relax those muscles helps the horse learn to relax its neck/posture. When I eventually get on the bolter, I tend to scratch their withers/neck a lot to keep the tension on of their neck, and do a lot of work on a circle. Keeping it simple, and letting them sit if they start to show signs they are getting worried.
J*stmyluck said: I dislike round pens. They allow for holes in the training program. Tiring a horse before you ride him? Not a good training concept in my book. See this is how I used to think which is why when I rode him he was started in the dressage arena that has no fence. (We do not have a fenced in arena the surround of it are only a foot high) Since then everyone I have talked too has said "who the hell starts a horse outside of a round pen.?" Because I figured at least in my mind it would be easier going from bigger to smaller then smaller to bigger. It sounds like the horse knows the aids to whoa, so not sure that is where the hole in the training is, rather it sounds like the horse doesn't know how to deal with feelings of tension, excitement, nervousness or? who knows what set him off. See I feel as if he is ridiculosuly nervous for a pony. However when I lead him to things he doesnt spook at them. It seems to be a strictly undersaddle nervousness. I check his back every day for soreness too it is one of my pet peeves. We will definately work on pushing him past his limit on the ground and then rewarding him when he releases.
CHT said: I am not sure I would start a horse in a ring without any sort of fence ( I like having a wall I can turn them in towards if needed), but I think round pens give a person a false sense of security...as in "well how bad can things go in a round pen?". If you start a horse in a regular size ring or pen, then I think the trainer is more likely to run through a careful check list to make sure the horse has the tools it needs to succeed. I have found backing towards or through things, is usually the easiest way to create tension. My main words of advice are: you didn't wreck your pony, and don't feel in a rush to get back on again! Fix it on the ground and it won't happen once you are back in the saddle.
B*roquePony said: Posted by meupatdoes: In my experience, the trick to stopping a bolter is to catch it on stride ONE. For example, you said that he was a little slow to listen to a downward transition before he bolted. Well, normally I am pretty nice to every horse I ride but if I am on a known bolter and he tries to get a little past me during a downward transition that is when I put my feet on the dashboard, stand up against them to pull harder, and DRAW AN ELEVEN IN THE GROUND WITH HIS BACK LEGS. I don't care if he is just mildly sassing a downward t-w transition. It ENDS, NOW. Same deal the INSTANT he gets a little past my seat in the canter. The split second that his canter gets a little faster than waiting politely for my seat, even if he is still basically under control, ELEVEN. IMMEDIATELY. Maybe we make it two strides before we draw an eleven. Oh well. Two strides, eleven. Ask again. Two strides. Eleven. Ask again. Two strides... until he canters politely and waits COMPLETELY OFF YOUR HAND. He is not allowed to GET CLOSE to your hand. Or he draws an eleven. Obviously it is extremely rare to have to ride in such a dominating fashion. Maybe one percent of all horses require this much of a ride ever in their lives. But, for those that do, don't hold back. Give them something to really think about for a ride or two and then everyone can go on their merry way again. I do believe that most bolts start way before the bolt starts, if you know what I mean, and that most bolts once started can be stopped in STRIDE ONE if you stand up in your stirrups and draw that eleven with every ounce of strength in your body. Be on his pace like white on rice and the SECOND he tries to sneak past you NAIL HIS HEINIE into the ground with no pity. You can make nicey nice again when he isn't trying to kill you. Agree with this 100% :yes:
B*roquePony said: Posted by Justmyluck: See I feel as if he is ridiculosuly nervous for a pony. However when I lead him to things he doesnt spook at them. Did you say he was half Welsh Cob? Some of them are quite "hot" ... like an arab, anglo-arab, thoroughbred ..... They can be very hot, and very bold, and they can sort of go off the deep end if not handled with some finesse. As other posters have already mentioned, a lot more ground work is needed. I do think you asked for too much too soon, basically setting yourselves up for a failure. Ssooo, while you are healing (sorry you got hurt ... that is never pleasant), for both of your's confidences (sorry for the weird phrasing), I'd start doing the ground work tommorrow. Teaching all of the aids in hand from the ground. I do it all the time. In a halter, a bridle, longing cavesson, in the paddock without a halter or bridle .... I use my knucle as if it were the leg or spur .... on the girth and behind the girth just as if you were riding. Get your pony bending ... it will save your life. I use what I call a pulley rein when I feel the horse is getting ready to bolt, and I stop it in the FIRST stride. I bend the horse around my leg fast and hard. As soon as they stop I release and we walk off ... or we do it again ... I always use an eggbutt snaffle and a dropped noseband. The dropped noseband does not have to be cranked down at all. It can be quite loose and still do it's job, which is too make sure that if the horse opens his jaw he cannot open it far enough to get the bit back where he can grab it with his molars .... any properly fitted noseband will work, but is has to be adjusted properly in order for it to be snug enough to stop the jaw from opening really wide. I use the eggbutt instead of a loose-ring because loose-rings can pinch and I do not want to add a sharp pain on top of my yanking the horse's head around. If you cannot feel when the horse is getting ready to bolt, then you should get help ... but continue with your ground work until you can get help. If you can feel when your horse is getting ready to bolt, then some of these ideas will help you get through this, hopefully without any more *accidents*. Slow down and take it one step at a time. Patience. Think this through. Anyway, you have lots of good advice here. ETA: the noseband also prevents you from pullling the bit through the mouth if you pull the horse around to one side .... ie if the horse opens his mouth wide while you are using one rein to bend him (heavy bending like in the one rein stop or pulley rein) then the whole bit can just slide through and you'll end up with the cheekpiece of the bridle in their mouth and the bit hanging outside the mouth !!
n2dr*ssage said: I don't think anyone said anything about the running martingale yet... I vote to absolutely use one. When fitted correctly it will not affect him at all when he's good but will provide a little more control if he's bad. When you put it on make him back up or something so he hits it and knows it's there (and to make sure he's not claustrophobic!). I feel your pain... I got bucked off a very large Trakehner yesterday and he was NOT stopping until I was off! Who knew Trakehners can buck every bit as good as rodeo QH's! Now my thumb is broken and I'm all bruised :(. I haven't come off a horse in 5 years... It hurts like hell! I say if you have to save money just do groundwork and ride in the roundpen and when you can send him back to the trainer for a while. No need in hurting yourself. Oh, and horses can still brace and bolt in a loose ring. I got run away with in slow motion like that before... Neck stiff.as.a.board and a loose ring. Horse didn't have her heart in the bolt thank god! I think a full cheek snaffle is a good idea too.
tw*fatponies said: My experience with bolters is mostly being run away with by enthusiastic or spoiled school horses when I was a kid and a beginner, with the exception of one school horse more recently who I felt gathering himself for a speedy take-off down the long side as we came around a corner and I said "no" and turned him into a circle, and he gave up the game right there. All of them were just "take advantage of beginners" types, not panicked or something. So take my advice with a grain of salt. :D But when you say during the bolts his neck is like a rock and you have no steering, then the thing I would do a lot of work on is movements involving bending - from the one-rein-stop exercises (as someone else described being a series of exercises you start on the ground), and all kinds of other bending and yielding work such as spiraling out on circles, leg yielding, turns on the haunches and forehand etc. These are all building blocks to make the horse remember and become more automatic to listening to the leg and hand. I'd also use a bit that won't slide through the mouth in an emergency (either full cheek or the drop noseband or some other setup like that for safety). I agree about the Welsh Cobs - I've known a couple and they were quite smart, opinionated and challenging and learned bad habits as quickly as good ones.
*xvet said: If sending the horse to someone with experience fixing this issue is out of the question, I guess it's my turn to weigh in. I had a welsh cob who was a bolter. His was bad attitude and poor work ethic added to the fact that his bloodlines are known to be quite hot (reactive/sensitive more so than hot). I knew from the get go that bolting was going to be his main trick in his bag because of how he would react as a weanling with leading and reactions to any and all monsters out there. The running martingale definitely helps; however, it can become a crutch too. Therefore the advice for perfecting his response to aids and commands on the ground is absolutely key and necessary. He needs to be handled with black and white parameters, quick but FAIR corrections. Also, once or when you are riding him you absolutely positively must develop a good feel for when he's starting to even consider bolting and stop it within the stride as has been suggested. That and only that in my experience will help. My guy has been sold to a friend (yes believe it or not I like her and the horse). He no longer bolts though one can never forget that it is in his repertoire should things not go well. He is still very sensitive and thus I had to pick someone I knew would be very quiet, wouldn't tense up at every reaction or move he made, and literally would laugh things off, be the leader but be relaxed about it. You can ride this horse on the buckle now. One thing to keep in mind. Welsh cobs have a very STRONG self preservation instinct and they have THAT neck. You will not out muscle a welsh cob especially if they are well balanced. I have certainly used the one rein stop/pulley rein however, with a well balanced welsh cob if you don't catch him before it actually gets started the one rein stop/pully rein is much less likely to work unless you can get the horse off balance. That can be dangerous in and of itself unless you are a very good rider. A bolting welsh cob is like riding a brick shit house on wheels full steam ahead with no breaks. BTDT and survived to tell the story. Most importantly this horse is a pretty nice animal as long as he remains in the right hands.
d*casodivine said: How old did you say pony is? Is he only bolting when asked to canter or at what point? He might simply be too young to do what you're asking. He feels off balance and panics. With the young ones, I like to do lots of walking with some trotting, no canter until that is solid. Since I only train my own horses, I'm not under any pressue to get something done in a certain time-frame.
*uventera Two said: I don't know much about Welsh Cobs other than I trim a couple. The two I trim do seem to be pretty hot, sensitive, reactive, drama-queen types. So maybe some lines just have those tendencies????? I'm really not a round-pen type either. I don't have one, and only use one ocassionally when at a friend's house. I prefer a longe line and a 20 meter circle but that's just me. Round penning can be done correctly and be a tremendous tool. Round pens aren't for running horses in circles until they're tired. It's supposed to be just a small area to work with a horse that is safer, more contained, and offers boundaries. You shouldn't run a horse around endlessly in a RP any more than you would run a horse endlessly on a longe line. Not sure about the running martingale. I don't use them so don't have much opinion or knowledge about what one could do in this situation. I do agree with using a full cheek snaffle if I thought I'd be in a runaway situation. The idea of getting on a bolter doesn't bother me because I'd do all the necessary ground work and training the ORS before hand. One of my mares was a runaway when I got her. She was a beast and I had to retrain her from the ground up. She now rides in a halter with a leadrope most of the time, or some form of bitless bridle or hackamore. Running away has little to do with having a hard mouth, and more about lack of training. Horses run away to escape pain and fear, or they run away because they're just plain s - - - heads trying to take advantage of the system. Sorting out which category your horse falls into is very important. My horse was a combination of the two. The people were riding the heck of out her, taking her to shows and rodeos every weekend, sometimes she'd be on the road in the trailer for days at a time traveling coast to coast. They were the type that would take her to a horse fair, and leave her tacked up all day tied up in the back corner of her stall because it was too much work to untack and retack in between their ride times. She had gotten extremely sour. She despised the sight of a saddle or bridle. She was ornery and mad combined with pain from a big ole heavy exhibition saddle that didn't come close to fitting. She has terrible conformation, she's built 3 inches downhill with a dip in her back. I never found a saddle that fit her so you know that one they used didn't. They bragged that the saddle cost like $5,000 or something because it was plated in silver. I've seen them since and they're using that same saddle on their new horse. Big long shanked, high ported bit that didn't fit. I have pictures of the bit sores on her lips. But I don't remember having any fear once I got her home and started riding her here. She did scare the crap out of me a couple of times with her runaway behavior but I just kept working in a small contained area, on a 20 meter circle until her brain was retrained. It didn't stop me from getting right back on her. (but then I never got hurt. If I'd come off and got hurt, I'd probably have a different tune) So maybe I have less fear because I've had to retrain one, I don't know. But if you don't feel safe or secure enough to do it, definitely get the help of a trainer. There is no harm in that at all.
Th*mas_1 said: Welsh ponies are easy to train and manage but they do have a tendency to take over if you're not up to the job.
C*tOnLap said: Since then everyone I have talked too has said "who the hell starts a horse outside of a round pen.?" Because I figured at least in my mind it would be easier going from bigger to smaller then smaller to bigger Round pen is very useful for ground work and prep work but I dislike riding in them because invariably I worry about catching a toe and dislocating my knee again... I have started the last 3 babies in a dressage ring with only 12 inch surrounds- the nearest fence is an acre away. And there has been no problem with them. The last 2 bolters I retrained also only worked in the same dressage ring. Somone said you have to catch it in the first stride? yes to that. It may take another half dozen to get it under control, but you can't let your guard down with such a horse, even if the habit isn't bad. IME, there are very few "s---head" horses out there but quite a lot who are misunderstood and confused and run away because they don't know what is being asked of them. Once you remain calm and repetitive, they calm down. What may help is establishing a pattern of figures and moves that is the same. For example, a typical warm up for me might be 2 or 3 rounds at walk, with doing 15 m circles in the same places, then move to trot for 2 or 3 rounds and do 15 m circles in the same place, then start the canter in the same way and do circles in the same place. Another pattern I use is the 20 m circle with 4 small 10 m circles within it at each quarter mark. This gets the horse anticipating what will be the next move and thinking about the work, not how to escape. Plus, he never gets to go in a straight line for very long- keeping a bend does help them from putting their necks up or straight out and running with the bit. That way, if I go to an unfamiliar place, I do the same pattern and the horse kind of "zens" into the pattern and doesn't worry as much about the wide open spaces or new surrounnings.
CHT said: I agree with having to catch them in the first few strides if you missed all the signals leading up to the bolt (and unless something terrifying catches you and your horse by surprise and he bolts as a reaction, then there are always warnings), but my way of "correcting" is drastically different. When I feel the potential bolter get quick and tense, I reach forward with one hand, and scratch his crest. If I am concerned, I may hold the mane with the other hand. This has so far always diffused the situation and the horse arches its neck and feels good about the situation and gets all prancy as they tend to when you scratch its neck. Not only does this difuse the horse's tension, it diffuses the riders tension. Holding a fearful animal with a stronger hold, bit, or martingale is backwards thinking. Of course I get the horse used to being scratched there throughout training, so the horse isn't suprised by the action. The horse really does not need to be the enemy. The horse really does not want to bolt...he just doesn't know what else to do. I think once you grasp those two concepts, the bolt is easier to fix. Punishing him/hurting him to correct his fear/tension based reaction seems very backwards to me. If a horse bolts to get out of work (which is not what I think is happenning here...but I have seen with lesson horses), then the rider's should be accountable for whatever poor riding/horsemanship they are doing that is making the horse hate being worked. It is not like we need horses to carry us into battle or plow our feilds...we should feel accountable to make sure the relationship is positive overall.
g*eslikestink said: Welsh ponies are easy to train and manage but they do have a tendency to take over if you're not up to the job. echo-- and they do get bored easily if doing th same thing day in and day out they love to work as in work work not little bit of work when you get on him put him straight into trot- and work the pony in properly get his full attention put trotting poles dwon on the centre line give him something to focus on and keeps his attention on you do enter trotting poles both directions and exit left and right both at the top and at the bottom - rather than keep going round and round - do exerecises that tacs his mind thenbring him back into schooling via lengthening and shortening his strides ussing the half halt in every transtition
J*stmyluck said: How old did you say pony is? Is he only bolting when asked to canter or at what point? Hes 6 =) As of right now we haven't pin pointed where is comes from. We worked on our ORS on the the ground today and focusing on me the whole time. He can get distracted. We also reestablished who is boss via working on leading and backing and circles and the basics. Oh and I've called and spoken to the trainer about other things to do, and we are going to set up a time for him to come out to the barn, and ride him and see how he thinks we are doing. =) Also turning out with boss mare backfired totally. I mean this mare is tip top of the totem pole. They were best friends she let him even come in before her. @_@ Hes going out with the herd tomorrow, tonight he is turned out with second in command. Also he is going to be weaned off his grain. =)
Th*mas_1 said: Also he is going to be weaned off his grain. =) I wouldn't personally bother with that. Just knock it off straight away. Trust me, it won't do any harm at all and young welsh ponies do not ever need hard feed this time of the year. Indeed I'd struggle to make a case for them to ever need it and mine winter out and are in work.
*xvet said: I agree with Thomas. No need to wean him off. Just stop it completely. I have 6 purebreds, 1 half bred and a couple of Arabs. None get grain. All are on hay and ration balancer. Even with that mine are often called fat (a fit fat mind you and certainly no lacking of muscle).
*xvet said: Here are a couple more thoughts: 1. Have you checked the tack, especially the saddle? Is there anything that could be either hurting him or scaring him (like is the saddle shifting back & forth, doesn't fit, etc.?)? 2. Have you have done long lining or ground driving? Since you mention the lack of steering, I have to say that this is what I do with all the ones I back. Before I get on they receive ground training, lunging and long lining so that they know voice commands, are better balanced, are more familiar with my aids AND have steering before I get on. 3. Is there anything you might be doing with your hands, sounds made or anything else that you can think of that might be setting him off? If so then you need to work with that on the ground before getting on and then get on with someone [good] lunging you in a confined area before you go out in a field. Hope it all works out for you and this horse. I also have to say that it can take quite a while to get one to trust and be convinced you are the leader. I find mine usually listen A LOT to my voice, particulary the more reactive ones. It's amazing how much I can avert simply by feeling them tense or "get an idea" (ie, watch those ears) and talk them through whatever in order to avoid an unpleasant situation but that means me being "on" 24/7 with a couple of mine. As they mature it's not so mentally exhausting. However what that means is that they know that I am the boss mare no matter what.
J*stmyluck said: Saddle fit has been mentioned he has perfect sweat marks, like classic textbook sweat marks. This of course doesnt mean it is perfect but hes been ridden in this saddle for what 20 days now with me and the trainer rode him in it too, as well as I when I went to ride him there. Its something I'll definately look in to but honestly it doesnt look like that is the cause. He was lined and I personally felt as if our steering was quite good before he went to the trainers. I'm not by any means bashing him but I feel as if he relies on rails way to much which is the reason I wanted to wean him off of the round pen. So story on that when I first got him we lunges in the round pen because well he didnt know how to lunge. So about 3-4 weeks of of the round pen we started lunging around the farm. It was a disaster he could not get the concept of a circle and would get 1/2 way around the circle and try and take off down a straight away I'd tell him no continue the circle and hed stop and start running backwards. It was weird and we kept going because well you cant ride/lunge in a perfect circle for ever. It took me a solid month to get this horse to go around on the line outside of the pen, before he was confident enough that even with the fence gone he could still do what was ask. We started by literally going around in circles that were just an arms length away from me, then to about a lead ropes distance, and finally half way out on the line then fully. But this was just at the walk, had to start all over. Close in on the trot, doing half a circle trot then ask for the walk, then 2 steps trot then 2 walked ect. So I stoped what I was asking before he flipped out, eventually we trotted full circles before he noticed that he had done it but we'd go around 3 times and he'd then realized that ohh no fence and flip out. So moral of the story we can now lunge WTC with no fence with out blowing a gasket. Before he left for the trainers we worked on doing straight lines on the lunge. Doing a circle and coming around the corner and I'd walked straight ahead with huge strides and we trot down the long side of our dressage arena then we would turn through X and trot down the long side again but then I'd ask for him to turn early and we'd circle then back to lunging straight. We havent done that since he got back. I bet you that starting this up again would really help. Because he'd be in situations with out walls and hed would have to turn, then go straight then turn and go straight. I'm such an idiot why have I not been doing that with him? Also I'm going to ask the BO if I can borrow her saint of a horse and pony him EVERYWHERE! (This may of may not happen, not that she would say no but whether I have the capabilities to do it.) I guess the BO could do it for me. =/ *ponders* I also want to ride with somebody around the property so that he has a buddy that is calm and collected. I do not want him to become herd bound though and lose it when buddy isnt there. Also I purchased a nice fulmer single jointed snaffle so hopefully can work on giving to the bit because we have extra incentive to turn because of the cheeks. This would also helpe even on the lunge line to improve our circles and our straight lines. So would you throw out RP work all together on the ground and reestablish comfort in open spaces? Then upon my ability to ride again he would be comfortable in open spaces. I think out previous bolt before the trainer, was due to him not know what was on his back. He walked more forward then felt me move with him and went OH SHIT whats on my back. Then this last one I think was an open space confidence issue. So get him comfortable again then re introduce rider in these areas once he can go calm and cool in these areas.
B*gie said: It sounds like you took a nasty fall and I'm glad your injuries were only bruises. One of the first things I teach any green horse is the one rein stop. It is a great tool for stopping a bolter but also as a "time out" when your horse needs to refocus. I think using a full cheek snaffle might help and a running martingale would be fine. But it's the one rein stop that will help save your butt. Please do not use draw reins unless you are trained how to use them; they can do more harm than good. However, the one rein stop is critical. As others have said, you start on the ground, then at a halt, then at a walk, etc. Do NOT try it at a canter until you've mastered all the slower gaits because the goal is to disengage the hindquarters rather than to make your horse fall. Good luck and stay safe.
J*stmyluck said: One of the first things I teach any green horse is the one rein stop. It is a great tool for stopping a bolter but also as a "time out" when your horse needs to refocus. Please do not use draw reins unless you are trained how to use them; they can do more harm than good. I've stated multiple times that I'm not comfortable using draw reins. No need to worry about that. We also started the one rein stop in a halter on the ground on Friday. =)
B*gie said: I've stated multiple times that I'm not comfortable using draw reins. No need to worry about that. We also started the one rein stop in a halter on the ground on Friday. =) I had a horse that was quite damaged by a teen using draw reins, which is why I mentioned it again. It caused him to start rearing when anyone tried to collect him. It was a darned hard habit to break and very scary. Good luck!
k*tarine said: As the person who suggested the DR, the reason why, is simple: leverage to double him if it's either double, or end up on the roadway. Once he's contained his panic and starts looking to you with more confidence, throw them in the trash.
B*gie said: Yes, but if you are not skilled at using DR you can end up with a whole slew of other problems, such as rearing. Once you have a horse that curls up behind the bit because of draw reins it's difficult to get them out of that habit. I think there are better ways of achieving control than using draw reins. I am not completely anti draw reins; they just shouldn't be used by someone who had no training in how to apply them. As the person who suggested the DR, the reason why, is simple: leverage to double him if it's either double, or end up on the roadway. Once he's contained his panic and starts looking to you with more confidence, throw them in the trash.
L*uraKY said: Take some polo lessons. You'll learn how to learn draw reins in a hurry. It's a very useful skill.
*xvet said: OK give me some leaway here. I'm mentioning saddle fit because I have a few saddle fitting challenges and many are growing/changing. I have saddles that "seem" to fit but still will shift, roll, move though not in a terrible way (like riding up the withers) yet enough that with a horse lacking confidence can scare them. I agree that it all sounds like confidence issues. He needs to learn to trust you and seek/look to you for direction in those moments. If you're not there willing and READY he will take over.....................that's just how it works which you are obviously figuring out. I would lunge him out in the open and line drive him all over out there but only after you've taught him the one rein stop and achieved definite control in the round pen (ie, you're not using the sides as a crutch either in order to stop). I'm really not trying to be insulting and you may well already know all this. It's just that I've been down this road before and have a few "ruined" cobs which I've acquired for free beause of mistakes others have made in the past. They required a lot of time and effort to turn them around but they weren't the crazy, dangerous, lunatics their previous owners made them out to be - just ended up in the wrong hands. You obviously sound like you have figured out his mind which is a huge step in getting this turned around - it's a nice change to many who call me about their "problem" welsh cobs.
d*casodivine said: Okay, sounds like he wants to be dominant. If the trainer started every time by tiring him out in sand, he really wasn't training him. Sorry. Even with my greenie, I only lunge for a couple minutes to get his attention on me and to see what his frame of mind is before getting on. If you can't afford to send him to a different trainer, go back to what you were doing before. You need to get him refocused on you. Sounds like you were doing all right before sending him off. I would rethink having someone work with him who trains by tiring them out before getting on. To me it's the same as drugging them. They don't really learn. So, if you don't tire them out before riding, you find the holes.
jc*tton said: Lunging and ground driving are great training tools and each has their place. I start my youngsters(regardless of breed--welsh cobs 1/2 arab cross,...) with just a enough lunging to understand voice commands. I try not to lunge very much when they are young(2yrs old) so I don't get splints or a sour attitude to work. I start in a large roundpen so that the youngster can't get away. After I feel they understand voice commands then I move on ground driving in the roundpen. When I feel comfortable ground driving from the side or behind, I then take them out of the roundpen. I walk them around trees( figure 8's, serpentines,...into water puddles, water jumps. At any time when I ask for "Whoa", it needs to be complete immobility until I say "walk on" and there is no creeping, wiggling, moving, eating grass as a distraction, in the "Whoa". I do ground drive large circles of walk, trot and canter for transition work(strength and balance). As Exvet and others have said Cobs are very smart. You have to be lots smarter than them. You have to be the "matriarch of the herd" ---head broodmare. Also as Exvet said, saddle fitting table topped cobs is very interesting and frustrating, as they grow and change in their body shape.
k*tarine said: Yes, but if you are not skilled at using DR you can end up with a whole slew of other problems, such as rearing. Once you have a horse that curls up behind the bit because of draw reins it's difficult to get them out of that habit. I think there are better ways of achieving control than using draw reins. I am not completely anti draw reins; they just shouldn't be used by someone who had no training in how to apply them. But- did you read what I suggested at all? Regular reins Draw reins attached to girth buckles and left draped, untouched...UNLESS and UNTIL he got worried/scared/chargey and locked his neck. Then you drop those regular reins and grab leather- and ONE side of said draw reins and double him- Catching him in a trot LONNNNG before he got into a canter/gallop- better yet a high tip toey goey walk...catch him, double him, slow him, whoa him, soothe him...and return to regularly scheduled programming. That won't teach a horse to curl up and hide. Ain't no way.
s*loudinhere said: What is meant by "doubling?" I've been riding probably 20 years and I have never heard that term. In so far as the draw rein plan, while yes that would work, it doesn't sound to me like this rider has the confidence or levelheadedness to execute this maneuver properly. it sounds like at least some of the contributing factor to the rapid devolution of this situation was her own additional panic. It sounds to me like this horse is just not confident and runs when he is confused or overwhelmed. Is there any reason why the two riding options are "round pen" or "huge open field?" Is there no arena you can ride in that's somewhere in between these two choices?
J*stmyluck said: it sounds like at least some of the contributing factor to the rapid devolution of this situation was her own additional panic. This though my panic was a lot less then it has been before in bolting situations. =) I have no panic mode when horses get into the rear/buck mode like a bronc. I can ride that like it is second nature. I dont understand what the problem is with me and bolting. I suppose I'd get more comfortable as time went on, but in order to do that would require me to ride it and stop it. It sounds to me like this horse is just not confident and runs when he is confused or overwhelmed. Is there any reason why the two riding options are "round pen" or "huge open field?" Is there no arena you can ride in that's somewhere in between these two choices? I have professional clay dressage ring with a 1 foot surround and a 1/2 acre paddock with a large oak tree in one corner.
k*tarine said: What is meant by "doubling?" I've been riding probably 20 years and I have never heard that term. In so far as the draw rein plan, while yes that would work, it doesn't sound to me like this rider has the confidence or levelheadedness to execute this maneuver properly. it sounds like at least some of the contributing factor to the rapid devolution of this situation was her own additional panic. It sounds to me like this horse is just not confident and runs when he is confused or overwhelmed. Is there any reason why the two riding options are "round pen" or "huge open field?" Is there no arena you can ride in that's somewhere in between these two choices? Doubling: Fold him back on himself, put his nose to your knee, hold him there until he quits trying to run off, his feet get still and his brain reboots. Release and regroup.
h*wardh said: Some really nice long hills work wonders. Is this an option? My arabs always get their brain back after climbing a big hill.
J*stmyluck said: Some really nice long hills work wonders. Is this an option? My arabs always get their brain back after climbing a big hill. Hill whats a hill? I'm in low land swamp Florida.
J*stmyluck said: So I figured I'd update this. We basically spent 3 solid weeks reenforcing his ground work. On the lunge and on the long lines, we had some severe tantrums on the long lines, as in he flipped out when I applied the outside rein and flung himself down on his side. He got back up and we havent had a problem since on them. We did have an ocassional bolt when something freaked him out but I would apply the outside rein and hed halt in his tracks, this is after he scared the shit out of himself (aka falling on the ground). Our lunge work is spot on. The second the word starts to come out of my mouth he does it, instant canter to trot and trot to walk and back to trot then to a screeching halt. His halts have become so instananeous that we could probably do reiners. So after 3 weeks I said to myself I have to get back on. I saddled up with my trainers cheapy westren and got on in the round pen. I rode him like he was a trained horse and he did great WTC. I rode him in there one more time and then took a lesson with my trainer in our ring while attatched to the lunge line and we've been making steady progress ever since. I've been working on demanding instaneous transitions undersaddle. They arent any where close to where they are on the ground but have been getting quicker and quicker. So after 3 lunge line lessons I started to go off hte line with my trainer walking beside us ect. She is going to start putting some rides on him for me, her first one was at night under the stadium lights, with thunder in the background and he went WTC with her in the ring. So really its not him so much now as it is me getting my confidence back. So yesterday I rode him W/T in out ring and he did fabulous. I purchased myself a splended Westren saddle and it has helped my confidence so so much. We'll go back to my slick Stubben once it comes back all the way. So some other stuff we worked on, one rein stops and turn on the forehands. He is a pro at these both on the ground and undersaddle. He now knows that leg does not mean solely forward but sideways as well. We are doing mini leg yields to keep him thinking all the time. He is actually quite good at them for an extremely green horse. He tried to spook one time when a childs wagon rolled by when my trainer was riding him, she said she could feel his butt tuck but beforeanything happend his head was bent to her knee and he was just standing there. Ths is what I've been doing with him when ever he feels to spooky to deal with the situation I do a light ORS with him and we stand there let it pass and move on. The first time we did this was when a horse in the pasutre next to the RP charged at us, he now no longer has problems with horses acting up when they come near him. So if that is his safe place instead of bolting im quite happy. We arew going to accompany my barn to a local schooling show and just hang out. The more he is exposed the better he will be about the little stuff he encounters at home. So I'm happy we are making progress again.
k*ana said: sounds wonderful.... I had the same thing happen to me and don't do bolters... my mare was six not really hot nor spooky in a lot of ways but when she did spook she dropped all the way to the ground and had a temper.... after a few rides she got pissed, tried acting spooky, when that did not work a good bolt, buck duck out from under me 180.. I had a bad fall took a while to get my head back and when I did seen the mare was running around PISSED OFF, she had been so good until well she got tried of playing the game and thought ummmmm... Most of the time after a lot of work to get her over her spoiled ingrain ground manners... I went back to ground work and never pushed her beyond what I could handle.. so far no more bolting and spooking is a rare thing... She just needed to be told who was boss over and over.. She throw fits and went down on the ground in a long reining lesson only to get up like yes ma! lol they could be twins.. Good update and keep up the good work, you just need to be really firm or he will see what he can get by with which I think the first bolt was just him saying I'm sick of riding and working bye.....