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p*ggiponiis said: I have a big 11 yo gelding. Who showed his first lameness in his whole career - in his front end. Upon further investigation - we could see that he has had inflammation in his pastern and coffin joints for quite a while and there are some boney changes in the joint. We have done some corrective shoeing, he'll have time off and getting an anti-inflammatory protocol. The vet is not sure how much longer I have of real work with him, but thinks we can certainly help prolong is activity a bit. Any thoughts on how i can best help him stay in work? Or personal experiences to share?
p*ggiponiis said: Did not mean to exclude the mares by the way . . . ;-)
z*kkandtoto said: My gelding is twelve and has arthritisup front. What I've tried: Corrective shoeing to open his joint angle. Didn't work at all, was extremely expensive ($230 a shoeing), the packing caused thrush, and it made him very reluctant to pick up his feet to be cleaned. Tried them with two different farriers. Joint injections. There was no change. Adequan IM. He got better immediately following the loading dose, but declined rapidly afterwards. Twice monthly maintenance doses didn't cut it. Pentosan IM. He just got his 3rd loading dose and is showing no sign of soreness. I have no clue what the maintenance protocol will end up being. My vet ordered the Pentason from Wedgewood Pharmacy ($135 for 50ml - he gets 7ml doses). http://www.wedgewoodpetrx.com/items/pentosan-injection-solution.html
Ch*r0308 said: I know some people on this board don't like Tildren, but this is one of the issues I think it can help with on an older horse; if your Vet is familar with it. I know a horse with similar findings that was originally thought would have to be limited to 1st level and below work but periodic Tildren has allowed horse to be sound and happy enough to continue with FEI level work. Its expensive and depends on how bad the bony changes are but you might want to check into it.
K*therineC said: Sent you a PM
L*z said: sent you a pm also
p*ggiponiis said: I am feeling more encouraged and will discuss many of your ideas with my vet. I know am really grateful for the feedback I get on COTH.
MySp*rrow said: I've been using a product called Super Substitute, from KV Vet Supply, on my arthritic horses. In all of them I've seen improvement, but two are particularly pleasing. A 16-year-old gelding who had been losing mobility behind due to arthritic changes is now moving freely and offering his previous level of work under saddle. More dramatic is the 26-year-old gelding. Before starting the supplement I really thought I was going to have to put him down, he was so sore and miserable. He would barely move across the pasture even for feed. After 6 weeks of supplementation, he's trotting and galloping around and generally looking happy. The 26-year-old mare with advanced ringbone (an adoptee) has not become sound -- that would be too much to hope for. But she moves a lot better, has gained some weight, her coat is blooming and she does have days when she seems to limp a good deal less. Good luck with your gelding!
*nsideLeg2OutsideRein said: My guy is a 17 (+?) y/o OTTB who is quite high maintenance. He has arthritis in both fetlocks, regularly wrecks his back/pelvis area, and used to have very bad stifle issues (plus he had gastric ulcers.) I don't show him, we just work at home on first level type stuff with a little bit of 2nd on a good day. What worked for him was 1) going barefoot. I am not at all someone who proposes that barefoot is generally better. Just for my horse, after trying all sorts of expensive and very fancy shoeing options and still not getting him sound, I pulled the shoes for "retirement" (that was 3.5 years ago) -- and six months later I had a (on most days) sound horse. 2) I tried all sorts of supplements and adequan, but he actually does best on a daily dose of Yucca (figure that). When the arthritis gets a little worse, my vet puts him on one week of Previcox, that takes care of it. He only needs this a few times a year. He is also on SmartGut daily (after full treatment of the ulcers with gastrogard), and I have seen improvement in his musceling just from not holding himself so tightly as well. 3) Chiropractor. He used to need the chiro every month, now we're down to every 3 months or so. But it helps to keep him from compensating for anything that gets stuck.
*nsideLeg2OutsideRein said: I've been using a product called Super Substitute, from KV Vet Supply, on my arthritic horses. Ig! I used to use Super Substitute -- it's great -- but should not be used on a horse prone to ulcers (which mine turned out to have.) Also, you can't show on it since it contains devil's claw.
p*ntopiaffe said: Well, mine's still got his dangly bits... but he's right in the middle of middle-aged. ;) But he is markedly more comfortable on certain joint supps. I've tried a few, with varying ingredients... what works for him (and his is mostly injury related, but a bit of creak creeping in) AT LEAST: 10g MSM, 5,000mg Glucosamine & 100mg HA. The products that work best--and you see/feel a difference in 48 hrs or so, are ActiFlex 4000, HylaRx Complete and, believe it or not, Majesty's Wafers. The MW I have to get one bag of the regular joint ones and one bag of the HA ones, and feed one of each... There are other similar supps out there that have the same level of ingredients, but are alfalfa based. I'm sure they work just as well, the ones I've ended up with are 'falf & soy free. ;)
C*llaway said: My 11 year old Holsteiner gelding was diagnosed with osteoarthrosis at age 6 :( . He stays sound with hock injections every 6-8 months, along with adequan and oral joint supplements. My vets says that those who feed oral HA are wasting their money because the molecules are too big to be utilized.
C*tOnLap said: Su-Per suBstitUTE Formulated for horses with joint problems ranging from soreness and stiffness to severe arthritic conditions. Recent studies show that although “bute” manages pain effectively, it actually interferes with joint repair. Su-Per suBstitUTE is a proprietary blend of Devils Claw, MSM, Salix Alba, yucca, grape seed extract, Curcumin and more to battle inflammation and pain. It is a drug-free, test-free safe alternative There are lots of formulations out there contianing these ingredients. however, I am told, that both Yucca and Devil's claw are prohibited in dressage showing, so contrary to the supplier's claims, it will "test". Also, I agree that it is not safe for all horses for concerns already stated regarding ulcers.
p*ntopiaffe said: The thing about joint supps, is they either work or they don't. If you don't see a difference in 3-4 weeks, don't buy another month's worth. MY Vet likes HA a lot and sees results with it in issues stemming from injury. I have to agree, since I can feel/see a difference in 24-48 hrs. And I've used the same ingredients without HA, without the same results.
M*rshfield said: He's now retired due to age, but Nicky was a management challenge for many years. Polyglycan was the most effective for him, I did try both Adequan and Legend. I also injected his coffin joints every 6 to 12 months (less daunting when you can do it yourself). He also had regular chiropractice and acupuncture. Towards the end of his working career, the chiropractic was at least monthly, but I'm AVCA certified and just did his bodywork myself.
G*llantGesture said: My boy is 15 and still going (mostly) strong on a fused ankle from the race track. He gets it injected every 6 months or so, and he gets Grand HA, which is hyaluronic acid (I think 200 mg?). My own vet even says the feed through supps are a waste of money, but I have tried taking him off this one multiple times and I see a HUGE difference. I have tried other supps that didn't make a difference though, so I think it depends on the horse. His arthritis is from an old injury and he has pins in his ankle, so it's a little different than just age-related arthritis. He also stays the soundest barefoot. I tried the corrective shoeing thing for him and it was a disaster. Barefoot, he keeps his one toe *really* backed up because his toe drags when it gets long due to lack of mobility in the fetlock. If it stays short, it breaks over easier, and he is fine. Sometimes, it takes a little experimenting, and letting the horse tell you what he needs. It also helps if the horse has the mind that wants to work, and has a job he enjoys and is physically comfortable doing.
St*rwatcher said: My horse turns 23 today. I have had him since he was 2 years old. He is a thoroughbred, but never raced. t 18 years old he was showing signs of arthritis. I started using Adequan IM. I did the loading does and then gradually backed him off. I started at every 4 days he got a 5 ml dose, then every week for a month and then every other week for a month and finally he gets an injection now every 4 weeks. The adequan plus the smartflex senior I have been giving him all of these years, really seems to do the trick. My horse still shows, trail rides, jumps with little to no pain. Maybe, I am just lucky, but I think the Adequan has really worked out for me.
dwbl*ver said: I think with confirmed arthritis I would be going directly to Adequan IM, or even better to Pentosan IM.
R*trainFirst said: Many of you seem to have a lot of experience with arthritis. I'm getting varying input on my guy and wonder if anyone else has had a similar experience. 12 yo gelding. Possible trauma to his knee. Didn't notice before he had a year off due to my pregnancy. Once we started riding again he was off. Xrays found a chip in his right intercarpal joint (knee). At the time I passed on injections or surgery because I didn't fully understand what we were looking at and it was a lot to take in. Now with a little more knowledge and input I have questions. I was told because hit was advanced arthritis, he could never trot/canter again, light riding only weekly, with bute beforehand. Of course I wanted to find an alternative to bute & did with Absorbine Flex Max plus an add'l 10,000mg of MSM. He was just adjusted and seemed to respond very well, more flexion, etc. Under saddle he wants to trot/canter but I don't allow him to because I was told there is a fear of his knee giving out. When you get the surgery or injections, how does that prevent the knee from giving out at the trot/canter? Is his issue not the pain, because it appears to be under control now, is it the chip? Has anyone heard of a supplement that dissolves the chip? Thanks so much!!
j*hnnysauntie said: "chips" really aren't bone chips (as I understand it) - they're actually damage to the cartilage in the joint. In my limited experience, I've seen a couple OTTBs with "chips" (cartilage damage) respond well to Adequan. Good luck.
*se@ssl said: My 21 yo DWB boy does the best on BL Solution pellets. I've tried a lot of other products but this gives him the most relief and it's easy to just add it to his grain.
r*trofit said: My limited experience is: Active arthritis - Adequan Thinning cartilage / "wear & tear" - HA (at least 100 mg/day oral - I use Flex Force) In either case - MSM (I double-dose for an average size horse +)
f*uerkracher said: My guy is 12 and has arthritis up front combined with some SI issues behind. Adequan, Legend, and oral joint supplements don't seem to make much of a difference. What keeps him sound and happy is lots and lots of turnout. He's turned out with my four year old ADHD monkey (er, I mean, gelding) and they move constantly. The more he is turned out, the sounder he is. After a year of at least 12 hours per day of turnout with his hyperactive buddy to keep him moving, he is 100% sound (knocks on wood) with good shoeing, occasional chiropractic, and nothing else. If he is in for a day, I can expect him to come out a little off and need some time to work out of it. I have had other horses who did very well with Adequan/Legend/Pentosan, and one horse who couldn't be without his oral HA supplement, but for all of the ones that I've had with arthritis, increasing their turnout and ensuring that they are moving while turned out (might mean turning them out with a safe buddy) really does wonders for them. Good luck, and don't be discouraged! I wasn't sure my guy would ever be sound last year, and now we're schooling 3rd and 4th and he's the happiest I've ever seen him!
w*ldlifer said: I have a 15 year old gelding with hock arthritis and his SI can go wonky too and he also has some possible hind fetlock involvement. We event and are moving up to Training Level this year (3'3"). (1) Turn it out. Keep everything moving as much as possible. 24/7 is really the best thing you can do for them. (2) Try the Adequan/Legend/similar. Also consider polyglycan. We are switching to that right now as it seems to pack a bit more punch. (3) We also do twice yearly hock injections with a steroid and they do make a big difference. If you want more punch and have more cash, you can add HA to the mix. My boy has stayed sound and happy even under heavy work with this. I never never never put him in a stall after hard work, he only comes in to eat most of the time.
bl*ckhorsegirl said: Have almost 18 year old gelding. Did the Tildren. He's going great! It's costly up front but about the same cost year wise as doing Adequan every other week. It's in study now. Hopefully approval by FDA will bring price down
s*egi b. said: "chips" really aren't bone chips (as I understand it) - they're actually damage to the cartilage in the joint. In my limited experience, I've seen a couple OTTBs with "chips" (cartilage damage) respond well to Adequan. Good luck. "Chips" aka OCD can be a variety of things including free (or not) floating bone/cartilage pieces that may or may not affect the joint. In the majority of cases the horse benefits from having those pieces removed surgically - they will not disolve by any means. The longer "chips" that affect the joint are allowed to stay where they are, the more damage/arthritis to the joint can be expected.
G*ve and Take said: I use Recovery EQ and MSM on my 18yr old semi-retired jumper. He was on previcox for a few months but started thinking he was 4 again which wasn't working well for my friend who uses him for lower level dressage. The more turnout and regular exercise he gets, the better he is.
M*yflower Farm said: We have a horse who sounds similar, Previcox had him sound within the week. I'd never used it before, but it has been great for him. He seems very comfortable and quite spunky now. His front leg xrays show arthritis so he's also on a glucosamine suppliment and Adequan, but the results were so quick with the Previcox, it was amazing. I would consider it for a horse with arthritic issues for sure.
n*tg said: My boy is 15 and still going (mostly) strong on a fused ankle from the race track. He gets it injected every 6 months or so, and he gets Grand HA, which is hyaluronic acid (I think 200 mg?). My own vet even says the feed through supps are a waste of money, but I have tried taking him off this one multiple times and I see a HUGE difference. It also has undenatured collagen II. I love Stacey's blog because she links to research and information, so it's not only her word. http://www.behindthebitblog.com/2010/06/undenatured-collagen-ii-new-research.html#links
P*tstorejunkie said: as an owner of a 16 year old sound TB I do want to mention that HOW you ride, and WHAT you ride on are just as important as the supplements and injections you decide to use. Having a fitness routine that works for your horse, reinforcing back to front with engaged hindquarters and remembering to half halt ALOT.
R*trainFirst said: Thank you everyone for your input. I'm considering him "half retired" because he is considered to have "severe" arthritis. Surgery was offered only to fuse the joint and because I didn't understand at the time what injections would mean for us I pass, so they sent up home saying bute before forced exercise. I've done all my own research and only hoping to keep him sound for his pasture comfort as well as weekly light trail riding. Sounds like I may keep up with the therapeutic levels of joint supplements; glucosamine, HA, MSM, etc. because that keeps him pasture sound. But will look into B-L pellets for trail riding season. I just wanted to make sure I wasn't pushing him through pain and/or when he's wanting to trot, putting us in danger. I may look into the pervicox &/or Adequan if the B-L pellets don't help or if we decide we want to add a little more of trot/lope on our rides. For those of you who use B-L pellets or liquid, do you use it as a daily supplement or like in my case, would you only give it to him prior and after riding?? Thanks everyone for your input. It sure helps to have some ideas when I speak to my vet about even options he may not have used yet!
c*atx55 said: I've started doing adeqan and legend (1x a month each, stagger every 2 weeks). Seems to help my horse quite a bit. The horse had been on just legend but now I need a little "more". Horse is a 19 yo with suspected low ringbone (but X-rays clean) and mild hock arthritis. Its good to keep them working, I don't really give extended time off. They don't ususally come back as well (very stiff and creeky)