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SELL my baby????

spr*nger said: I own a coming 5 yr old andalusian (well, 3/4 andalusian) gelding who has just begun his training. I've owned him since he was a weanling and for the most part he has been a rotten spoiled escape artist brat for 4 yrs! This is the thing: he has had roughly 60 days under saddle with a wonderful young dressage trainer here, and she and HER trainer are so impressed with him that they now want to buy him! They feel that he has upper level , possibly GP potential. ( :eek: ) More than likely if I keep him he will get ridden bareback in my pasture once in awhile, and more than likely never even go to a show. We don't have the budget to keep him in endless training and campaign him. Eeeeek! I have never sold a horse before and am very emotionally attached the the little guy. What the heck do I do??? I'm sure he doesn't care whether he ever shows, and would be very happy just eating hay and taking up space, but as my trainer says, that would be a waste of his potential. We have not discussed money, I'm afraid to take it that far, but I'm guessing the offer would be well under 10K.

*tlatl said: Under $10K for a "potential" GP horse seems low to me. You're right, he doesn't care if he ever shows so the "waste of his potential" argument is BS in my opinion. It comes down to what do you want? What are your goals? Do you need the money? Only you know the answers. Whatever you decide will be right for you.

xQHDQ said: Just a couple of things to think about. 1) you're right, your horse will not care if he shows or not 2) remember that any lameness, behavior issue, etc can come up in any horse, even one you've raised yourself (maybe he'll hate deer on the trail) 3) there are lots of horses out there You have to weigh your attachment, versus how much he's worth, versus how much they are willing to spend on him (2 totally different things), versus what you can buy with that money that may be as (or better) suited to the job you need him to do. Also look at your non-horsey life. If they offer more than it would cost to replace him, could you use the money? We being horse-addicted will fall in love with any horse we have. You will miss him but love your new horse just as much. You would also be able to vicariously enjoy his sucesses in the show ring. Of course, I'm not saying sell him. Just bringing up some things to think about.

C*ppers mom said: Who cares if he'd be "wasted" with you? If he makes you smile and you enjoy him, keep him. If you do want to sell him, ask them to make an offer, and say "Oh, I was hoping for about 10K more..." ;)

jc*tton said: What did you initially purchase him for. Add at least a $1000 for year after. I know of an And/fres cross that is doing the basics and for sale for 15,000. I would start at 15,000, I would aim high and then you have room to come down or keep him if they don't want to pay that much. Every horse has a price.

TSWJB said: for 10k why bother selling him? seriously your horse doesnt care if he realizes his potential or not. if they were talking 30k or more, maybe you should reconsider. but really 10K i would not sell a horse i love.

*bex said: Agreed. 1) He doesn't know he's "wasted" being a pet. 2) There's a big difference between what a horse is "worth" and what a horse is "worth to you" ;)

spr*nger said: THANK YOU wonderful COTH people! Exactly what I was hoping you guys would say! I love the little guy; he's happy here with his buddy in his forested paddock by the creek, and he's worth alot more to me emotionally than the 6-8K they would probably want to pay for him. Flattering nonetheless, that they think so highly of my boy-

*ldbag said: an old saying - If you sell them you have the money. If you keep them they die.

Ch*ila said: I'd say "Make me an offer I can't refuse." And see what they come up with before refusing :D

r*dhorse5 said: I would keep him. $10000 is not really that much when it comes to letting him go. You won't miss the money - you'll miss the horse.

n*tg said: I would keep him. $10000 is not really that much when it comes to letting him go. You won't miss the money - you'll miss the horse. And honestly, sounds pretty underpriced to me from what I've seen out there. I know the market's garbage, but especially when keeping the horse is no financial hardship - he's a complete package of a prospect based on their comments, so he should be more than that. (Or is the horse market in AZ stronger than other places?)

S*ndra6500 said: an old saying - If you sell them you have the money. If you keep them they die. THIS. At least talk $$$ with them before turning them down. Maybe they will offer way more than the 6-8k you are thinking. You never know until you have that conversation.

SFr*st said: You are the only one that knows what is right for you. Your horse couldn't care less if he sits out in the pasture and doesn't do GP dressage. This is just me, but I wouldn't sell my guy for any amount of money. Seriously, is someone offered me $100,000 or even way more there is no way he'd be going anywhere. There is no price tag in my mind for him. I love him way too much and I really enjoy the partnership I have with him. Again, that is just me. Also, $10,000, IMO, is way too low.

h*rsetales said: I have a horse that so far has been my dream horse and is everything I wanted. I have had a couple of people ask if I would sell her. I have responded if you recently won a lottery jackpot, I'ld be glad to entertain an offer ;) I'm with the others 10K for true GP potential is too low. If he makes you happy, don't do it. Look how many threads there are about people not clicking with a horse they purchased or the attitude is a problem. Enjoy your gem.

*sdressage said: It sounds like it's an easy decision. You don't want to sell him, and the price you're thinking they'd offer (and you must have a number in mind for a reason, right?) is too low anyway, so it's a non-issue. Your horse doesn't care if he ever trots down a centerline. He does care that he's loved, gets exercise, good food, etc. You can do that as well as your trainer. But, you can be proud that you have such a lovely horse! It might be fun to take some dressage lessons on him if he has a knack for it, though. :) ETA - I do think this thread warrants a photo of the pony in question! ;)

m*upatdoes said: Well of course they think it would be FANTASTIC if you would accept that completely low-ball offer.

T*f_Ann said: $6-8k for an Andalusian is very low ... even without GP potential. I would expect quite a bit more.

m*upatdoes said: $6-8k for an Andalusian is very low ... even without GP potential. I would expect quite a bit more. Tell me about it. One of my friends from highschool sells them for five digits IN UTERO.

*sdressage said: OK- here's my boy. This is his 39th ride under saddle. http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=1052396&l=aa2dacc8ec&id=1538131604 OK, I have to change my response. You should sell him… to me! :lol: Just kidding. He's lovely! Enjoy YOUR horse!!! :D

M*rengo said: Just curious what the other 1/4 of this 3/4 Andalusian? I love Andalusian crosses. I agree with the others not to sell him in that price range. Is the trainer looking for a prospect to bring along? Could you free lease him to them so that he gets training, a chance to shine in the show ring for a bit and you would get a well trained horse in the end?

Ch*ll said: Oh he is lovely.

m*upatdoes said: Could you free lease him to them so that he gets training, a chance to shine in the show ring for a bit and you would get a well trained horse in the end? See, now we're cooking with gas! :D

C*ppers mom said: I would never take anywhere near 10K for a horse with GP potential. Seriously, if they offered you any less than 20K, they're just trying to screw you over.

L*zzieAnn said: He is complete garbage! Hmm.. I wouldn't even think about buying him for 10k! GP .. are they crazy?? I would be willing to take him off your hands so you will no longer have to keep training this horse... :lol: Would you take 4k? :D Ha, JK! Keep him! 10,000 is WAY too low. ;)

L*ne said: I'd say "Make me an offer I can't refuse." And see what they come up with before refusing :D I would do that as well! May as well see what they're thinking money-wise before you say no! Oh, and after looking at the photos- I'm facebook friends with the trainer who's riding him! He is super cute- and I know she's very fond if him!

mjmv*t said: I was once told my mare would be worth 5 figures to the hunter crowd. Her sire is a GP jumper, and is doing very well. For me, she's a pet, a training project (I'm an amateur trainer), a learning experience, and, well, mine. I wouldn't sell her to anyone. I do like the idea of offering them to lease him - then they get the opportunity to show/campaign/show off their training skills and you get a highly trained pet!

spr*nger said: we've discussed the possibility of leasing, and the possibility of a partnership. They aren't interested in either of those options. I can kind of understand that it would be hard to maintain control of things when he would not totally be their horse. And me, being the control freak that I am, can see it turning into a disaster:no: with people that I have become friends with and have the utmost respect for-

spr*nger said: [QUOTE][QUOTE]quote=Marengo;4850571]Just curious what the other 1/4 of this 3/4 Andalusian? I love Andalusian crosses. He is a Malibu K son and his dam sire is the Azteca stallion Osado.

k*alea31 said: Very nice horse. 10k is way to low. The 3 year old Andalusian mare I have in training is being advertised for 18. If this horse really had GP potential, start at 30k. But - when you posted the first picture you wrote "his 39th ride" - obviously you love this horse. I think you should keep him, JMO.

k*alea31 said: we've discussed the possibility of leasing, and the possibility of a partnership. They aren't interested in either of those options. I can kind of understand that it would be hard to maintain control of things when he would not totally be their horse. And me, being the control freak that I am, can see it turning into a disaster:no: with people that I have become friends with and have the utmost respect for- They may be looking to buy him and sell him for a profit.

S*sterToSoreFoot said: Just enjoy him. If you want to play around with his potential, take dressage lessons with him for fun. I was offered 20K for my OTTB in '98. He could have been a GP jumper, and sometimes I wished I could have seen him shine in that area. Instead, he was my eventer, jumper, dressage horse and friend. I think the life I gave him (time to be a horse, with competition sprinkled in) was more enjoyable than being a more hardcore show horse being trucked all over the US. He will be happy in your care.

P*tstorejunkie said: Every horse has a price. I disagree, but I'm a lifer horse owner maybe that's the difference... I do find it interesting that there are two very clear opinions on here, and I think it goes by what we've been exposed to. I'm a lifer (meaning if I get a horse I'm never selling), and honestly the thought of selling a horse I raised with GP potential turns my stomach, and he's not even mine. I say go do piaffes in the pasture, and be the bareback dressage master. you got an andy to do dressage i'm sure, you put him in training for dressage, so this was a goal of yours at a time. I don't really show, but I study HARD. This art really is my life, yet we ride in a field most of the time.

*tlatl said: an old saying - If you sell them you have the money. If you keep them they die. Ha! Maybe true eventually, but then I was boarding 3 horses at one time in LA because I kept them. Yeah, they die eventually, but my oldest was 32 when he finally went.

Dr*ssage_Diva333 said: I agree that every horse has a price. Several years ago I turned down more than one high offers for a horse that I would "NEVER sell". Then I decide I need to sell said horse, and end up with 15k less than the offers I was getting. Horse went to a fabulous home, and I do miss him, but I learned my lessons that EVERY horse is ALWAYS for sale. I have one right now that I'm pretty emotionally attached to. I intend to keep her, but if I got an offer high enough, sure I'd sell her. However, that offer would have to be worth it to me, which would likely be around $10000 more than market value. Just depends on how much somebody wants a horse. I do love my horses, but it's just not logical to turn down a more than fair offer, especially in this economy. Horses can trip and break their leg tomorrow. If I were you, I'd get some numbers, then make a decision.

p*ntopiaffe said: hhmmm.... I am a breeder, so the ones that I know from pre-conception are 'sale horses' make it easier. But, as a breeder, it is a wonderful, amazing thing to have one of my 'kids' go out there and do big things. It is amazing to have them do more than they would ever do with me. Now, you're not the breeder here, but, ask yourself if you would be happy to be the one who 'found' him and raised him, when he is in the FEI ring? And it sounds like you would be able to keep track of him and bask in his glory. ;) I agree the price should be more. I wouldn't be against a good discount with a good faith right-of-first refusal clause... that might be a very nice thing all around... He is SUPER cute nice. And he could break a leg or twist a gut tomorrow. It's not easy, but the big decisions never quite are.

*gontoast said: I learned my lessons that EVERY horse is ALWAYS for sale Nothing wrong with that perspective but it's not true for everyone.

M*rengo said: hhmmm.... I am a breeder, so the ones that I know from pre-conception are 'sale horses' make it easier. But, as a breeder, it is a wonderful, amazing thing to have one of my 'kids' go out there and do big things. It is amazing to have them do more than they would ever do with me. Now, you're not the breeder here, but, ask yourself if you would be happy to be the one who 'found' him and raised him, when he is in the FEI ring? And it sounds like you would be able to keep track of him and bask in his glory. ;) I agree the price should be more. I wouldn't be against a good discount with a good faith right-of-first refusal clause... that might be a very nice thing all around... He is SUPER cute nice. And he could break a leg or twist a gut tomorrow. It's not easy, but the big decisions never quite are. I totally get your perspective pintopiaffe as a breeder but how would the OP feel if she sold him to these people in the hopes that he'll be in the FEI spotlight someday only to find out he was sold to someone else for a lot more money. Someone else who won't keep in touch with her and who may not have plans to show him. If it were me I'd only be entertaining of going into a lease situation, since that doesn't seem to be possible in this case I wouldn't be selling him.

Z* Zu said: He is simply WONDERFUL ~ I would enjoy him !!! Sounds like there is ONLY ONE case scenario in which you would be Happy with selling and that would be IF he makes it to the BIG TIME Spotlight ~ so very many do not ~ so if you want him = He is Yours and you should keep him. IMHO. Again He is very NICE !!!!! You should be so PROUD !!!

C*rol O said: He's lovely! Is that you in the saddle? Nice! Listen to your heart. If you love him, keep him!

P*niesofmydreams said: Sounds like someone is seeing the potential to make some money on him. Nothing really wrong with that except that he belongs to you and you love him. Keep him and enjoy him. Not every horse is for sale. We have a Welsh pony that was in such poor condition when she was rescued. For a few days her life hung in the balance. Finally happy, healthy and loved by her little girl, there is no amount of money that could buy that pony. She spent most of her life bounced around(according to her papers). She even traveled across the country twice. We are her family now. Enjoy your gorgeous boy.

C*ppers mom said: I firmly believe that not every horse is for sale, and my whole deal is buying/selling horses! Sure, I may like or want the other horses, but Copper isn't for sale. He is my pony, and that's just the way it is. Other horses have been for sale "for the right price", but not Copper, not for any price.

s*zy said: I have no idea what your finances are, so I guess the first question is do you *need* to sell him. If so, I agree with everyone else that $10K sounds terribly low. Of course, it's difficult to tell from a couple of still photos what a horse is really like, but if he is sound and sane with 3 decent (not even extravagant) gaits, than he is already worth more than $10K. If gaits are very good to exceptional and he is highly trainable, the price will be much higher. I know you said the people working with him don't want to do a lease. However, this doesn't mean you couldn't find some other capable rider in your area to work with him in exchange for the fun of showing him, while you retain ownership and control. I really like the looks of this horse and would urge you not to make any quick decisions that you might later regret. He is young and desirable, so you have time to figure things out...assuming finances aren't pressing you for a quick decision, and I hope they aren't.

*nelanerode said: It's worth a lot to have a horse you truly enjoy working with, riding, being around, etc. And it's hard to put a dollar figure on that. It doesn't sound to me like you're convinced the trainer has the horse's best interests at heart. I can certainly understand that adding another layer to your reluctance to sell him. He looks like a lovely fellow. I wouldn't part with him for $10k if you enjoy him as much as it sounds like you do. It's worth seeing what the trainer offers, from the "he could break a leg tomorrow" perspective, but if you don't think you should sell him, don't.

Sm*rtAlex said: Once they become part of the family, money isn't the issue. Yes, the old saying is if you turn down a reasonable offer on a horse, then it will ruin itself immediately. But hey, then it can be buried on my property, and I will know I did everything in my power to keep it safe, happy and healthy. There are some special horse you develop a relationship with that you never intend to sever. We have three kinds of horses at our place. Those we will sell you, those we will give you, and those who live here.

p*nyjumper4 said: Trainer has not made an offer. 10K or less is what the OP is ASSUMING the offer may be. It never hurts to entertain an offer. I have several that I absolutely will not sell, but I sure don't mind listening to offers.

L*bera said: Sounds to me like they see an oppertunity to make some money here...They probably want to train him for a while and sell him for much much more. You could see what they have to offer, but if you enjoy your horse...keep him. Trainers mostly make money by riding other people's horses, not by buying horses for themselves. If a trainer wants to buy your horse, it is most likely for resale. And remember, in most cases, your trainer is not your friend, it is all business.

M*zart said: Doesn't hurt to hear what they offer. I wouldn't take under 10k for what you describe unless you actually need to sell him. What are your riding goals? Maybe they will make an offer such that you can go out and buy something that is exactly right. If your riding goal is to ride this particular horse then keep him. However, rare is the opportunity to actually make some money in this sport, I would think long and hard about turning down a really good offer. If they offered in the 15k range I would definitely sit down with the pro/con list.

sm*thereens_86 said: If you enjoy him, and he makes you happy, then he is already living up to the only potential he needs to fulfill - satisfying your needs. Whether he could/would do more with a different owner is totally irrelevant. He is your horse, so enjoy him. However, if you do decide to sell, I purchased my Andalusian/TB cross that has upper level potential as a 4yo last year, and spent well over $10K. If his temperament and movement are good, then $20-30K is a more accurate ballpark. ~Shelly~

n*rcisco said: Have you ridden him, can you ride him, and do you want to ride him? If not, listen to their offer. I speak on behalf of all of the Andalusians I have known. All of them loved to work, loved to think and loved to be challenged. They did not enjoy standing around in a field, got bored and started to alleviate boredom by doing things like escaping. Most were too hot to be good, safe, hack around bareback in a field type of horses until they hit their 20s. I quit riding my 26 year old Azteca, and let him be used in some therapy and light lessons. He was bored out of his gourd, lost his appetite, lost his muscle tone and started wasting away. So, I pulled him out this spring to pony a rising three year old filly. He is SO proud to have a job again. He's eating everything in sight, putting on muscle and weight and has started a May/December romance with the filly. I guess what I'm saying is that these horses are bred to work at some of the most mentally demanding disciplines: bullfighting and the haute ecole. It's in their blood. I'm not convinced they are particularly happy standing in a field, although I agree that most horses are. In fact, I may never again see those two pony mares I put out in the field today.

*legante E said: I'm with Narcisco that some Andis really need work as they truly want all that attention and enjoy the mental workout as much as the physical one. With this horse's history as escape artist, it sounds like he's one of the "wants to work" kind. You say you just want to watch him standing in the field most of the time. To me that is a waste and probably not the best situation for this type of horse. He's more likely to be injurred and cause trouble if left to his own devices. I have an older guy, 3/4 Andi, who was out of work for a long time due to an injurry then my time constraints. Just got him back under saddle and he's super happy! He's also amazing in that he's totally where he was mentally before the injurry, which was three years ago. When I bring him in to tack up he prances in his natural passage and is super excited and all puffed up. It's great to see him so happy. Feel bad for waiting this long. Just some things to think about. Different horses enjoy different life styles. Just be sure you are taking the horse into account and not just your own pleasure. Honestly, there is a lot of guessing in either scenario, sell/don't sell.

*uventera Two said: There is no such thing as a horse being "wasted" because he isn't trained and ridden up to his potential. Horses don't care if they get ridden and campaigned and get their picture in shiny magazines. They care about eating, sleeping, shelter from a storm, room to run and play, and companionship. If you're worried this horse might not have enough to occupy his mind, then teach him to trail ride, or just do free work with him in the field. Take him for a walk down the road like a dog. Or give him a jolly ball and a young companion. Mine aren't for sale at any price because they're family members as far as I'm concerned. And if I owned a GP potential Andalusian you can darned well bet I wouldn't accept an offer as low as 8 or 10,000!

*nWhyCee Redux said: They may be looking to buy him and sell him for a profit. AMEN. Now, OP — how much do you want? Because as soon as I win the lottery, I am coming to you with checkbook open. He is LOVELY. Unless I needed the money for boxed mac-n-cheese, I would keep him!

*gontoast said: To the Op you should not feel any pressure to sell. As has been said over and over and is true, horses have no ambitions to excel in the show ring. If he were mine, I'd want to continue with his training because I would find that interesting but you have to do what you want to do. If the trainers are only offering 10k then they are hoping to train and sell on for more. Nothing wrong with that. They have to make a living. Do what you want to do and your horse will be fine. PS the person who backed my young horse told me she could sell him for 90k if I handed him over to her. I was flattered but did not bite and I think she was dreaming. He's nice but he is not THAT nice. AND He's not for sale.

*sdressage said: Additionally, people have made a very good point that some horses need a "job" to be happy. However, there's no reason why that job wouldn't be carrying his owner around bareback in the pasture, getting rewarded for traversing the bank to the river (for example) just right, as long as he gets mental and physical stimulation. He doesn't care if it's a GP movement he's doing, or navigating the trees and bushes in his pasture with his doting owner. Job, yes, but who cares what kind of job as long as he's getting the food, exercise, stimulation and love he deserves? There's no such thing as a horse with wasted potential, if his owner feels that potential is making her wonderfully happy and him getting drowned with love and attention… and yes, plenty of exercise.

S*ndra6500 said: I still say talk numbers. The 10k keeps showing up in every other post, but has anyone on the potential buyers side actually said 10k? Maybe they are thinking $50k. Maybe they are thinking $2500. Its hardly ever wise to speculate on these things. I would say that unless the horse isn't going to be for sale at ANY price, making all conversations a moot point, at least have the conversation. Im guessing that is not the case because you asked the question on here. Once you hear their number it will be a much easier decision. Its hard to price anything based on photos alone but he looks cute. I'm not saying sell him- just don't shoot yourself in the foot over assumptions.

Tr*tTrotPumpkn said: -Agree--it doesn't hurt to talk numbers and see what they are thinking. They obviously have a number in mind. Find out what it is. If you are attached to a horse and don't need to sell it for financial reasons, etc. then only sell for what price will make you happy if they turn around and sell the horse for more. There is nothing wrong with that, btw, because it means they have cultivated connections, added training, etc. but you don't want to become bitter about it, either. Once you sell a horse, it is out of your control. End of story.

Dr*ssage Art said: Didn't we had a horse buying thread not long ago where COTHers were saying that's it's easy to go out and find a $10K 1st level horse now? Yes, you can ask a moon for any horse, but I never believe claims of a horse having "GP potential", unless it comes from a rider who trained around 100 GP horses, but at the same time those riders would never claim that horse has a GP potential, since you don't know so early if horse has 1 tempis, pirouettes, and piaffe in them. (and no, half steps do not = piaffe) + I see lots and lots of horses with FEI potential never got above 2nd level... there are more things go in to GP than just a talent. My point is that you shouldn't be worried that you boy will "waste" his "GP talent". Until the horse is about 4th level, they all have FEI potential, once training PSG, then you can more-clearly see if the horse is truly has what it takes to get to GP (including staying sound at such a taxing athletic levels) That’s one of the reasons why many GP riders tend to buy 4th/PSG level horses if their goals are GP. For you the most important thing should be if you "click" with your horse and if that horse makes you happy after most of the riders on him. If yes, he is the horse for you- regardless of his potential talent.

SFr*st said: I totally disagree with those who have stated that "every horse has a price". Not mine. Not for ANY amount of money. Ever. A million dollars? No thanks. You can always make money, you can't replace your partner. Just how I feel. I know everyone is different. OP, your horse is beautiful. $10k is way too low. Keep him, enjoy him.

J*ckSprats Mom said: My guess would be, as you posted you're tempted. Rather then guessing, ask them what they want to offer. Personally at 10k for a GP potential I would laugh. How ever its hard to turn down 30-40k :eek:

N*n said: I speak on behalf of all of the Andalusians I have known. All of them loved to work, loved to think and loved to be challenged. They did not enjoy standing around in a field, got bored and started to alleviate boredom by doing things like escaping. Most were too hot to be good, safe, hack around bareback in a field type of horses until they hit their 20s. This has been my experience as well, though judging from the Iberian Yahoo group, you and I are the only ones who have encountered such Andalusians. They all swear their horses are gentle, sweet, kind, calm, never spook, stallions can tote children around bareback and bridleless across freeways... OP -- I think you said your goal was trail riding. I wonder if it would be worth putting your horse in to trail riding training for a month and seeing if you can trail ride him. My Andalusian is too -- [can't quite find the right word] -- for trail riding (at least for me), and he's 22 years old! I certainly couldn't have trail ridden him when he was 4 or 6. No way! Don't give a bit of thought to "wasting" him as your pet. No life filled with love and bringing joy to one's partner is ever wasted. Here's my "wasted" boy. (He was a national champion when I bought him 13 years ago.) Does he look miserable? :) Ivan (http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash1/hs529.ash1/31061_1453685070514_1484919377_1185933_3561937_n.j pg) ETA: Can't resist adding another picture. This is him in motion. (http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-snc1/v2716/85/12/1484919377/n1484919377_285374_1815054.jpg)

p*ntopiaffe said: This has been my experience as well, though judging from the Iberian Yahoo group, you and I are the only ones who have encountered such Andalusians. They all swear their horses are gentle, sweet, kind, calm, never spook, stallions can tote children around bareback and bridleless across freeways... :lol: :lol: :uhoh: Yeah. Um, I checked out that list a couple years ago... and am still looking for an Iberian group similar to CotH... ;) Another thought here, from someone who at one time had two upper level prospects going... Do you have other horses with as much potential--for what YOU want to do? While it was absolutely the worst thing that has happened to me in my life, loosing my best girl mare ended up having an outcome I didn't expect. My stallion had been a training project, a show project... It was a 'training/breeding lease', in that in return for training and showing him, I got to use him for breeding/sell any foals *I* bred... I know in my heart--even though it hurt to admit it--if I had NOT lost Integrity, I never, ever would have had the journey I've had with the stallion. I simply don't have the time or energy to properly give to TWO upper level horses. Most especially at that time in my life when I was very involved in progressing a career. I absolutely agree there *are* horses who are not for sale. I don't agree that *all* horses are happy with just food, shelter & safety. I know more than one that needs a job and thrives with a job--as described so aptly above. I don't think that any of us knows the OP's desires and goals well enough to *really* advise. All we can do is give our own opinions & experiences. In my HONEST opinion, I think the gelding shown is a terrible example of the breed and an embarassement... trainer is blowing smoke. But, I would be happy to hide him here at the edge of creation so no one need be ashamed. :winkgrin:

P*affePlease said: If he is a typical Andalusian, then he wont be happy just being a pasture ornament and being taken out every once in a while. Andys thrive on attention, work, and training. Andalusians get bored easily (which is why they like to figure out how to escape) and they love to be worked. Your Andy sounds similar. He might not care about going to shows, but he does care about having his own person to spend time and work with him daily.

*gontoast said: ETA: Can't resist adding another picture. This is him in motion: http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=1185928&l=e76b88fed3&id=1484919377 :lol: PS it was same photo of grazing horse

mbm said: first, he is LOVELY ! so.... only you can decide if you want to sell him - he doesn't care what he does as long as he is given the tools to carry his rider well, is ridden decently etc. sometimes it doesn't hurt just to have the conversation and see how it feels... but before you do that, please go out and peruse the ads for FEI prospects. really be honest and try to see what range he might sell for. then add some onto that and keep that in mind when you talk with your trainer (hint - it is much higher than 10k) i know of several young trainers who have done trades with special youngsters owners.... trainer gets to ride super youngster and make a name for herself, owner gets free training for their horse. it is a win win situation for all. however you need to specify length on contract and be very clear about all aspects. good luck. :) ps - you might want to remove the pics and any identifying info. trainer may not be happy with this thread popping up - it is too easy to find out who you are talking about..... and, just so you know how easy it is - i watched a video of your horse. and he is worth way more than 10k (maybe double or triple that amount) he is a SUPER youngster)

T*N Farm said: I totally disagree with those who have stated that "every horse has a price". Not mine. Not for ANY amount of money. Ever. A million dollars? No thanks. It's easy to say that when you know there is no way you will ever be offered a million dollars. Many many years ago I read an article in Practical Horseman that was about riders holding on to horses because they 'love them'. The quote I remember is "the horse you love does not love you". Sadly, I think this is the truth. An animal will adjust to a new owner and for that reason it is quite foolish to decline an enormous amount of money for an animal....unless.....you are so wealthy it doesn't matter. I do not think the trainer is looking to resell this horse. I think she is looking for another horse to take to GP, because her GP horse is 19. I think the trainer has had a little bit of success and is likely over estimating this horse's potential for GP.

N*n said: :lol: PS it was same photo of grazing horse Weird. That was neither of the pictures I meant to share. Try these links: My nice Andalusian who lives at home and doesn't do anything spectacular, head shot. (http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash1/hs529.ash1/31061_1453685070514_1484919377_1185933_3561937_n.j pg) Trotting (http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-snc1/v2716/85/12/1484919377/n1484919377_285374_1815054.jpg)

*nstigatorKate said: Nice horse! I totally sympathize and am in a semi-similar situation myself with a nice 4yo that several trainers have told me can be a high 5-figure/low 6-figure hunter. I'm torn as to whether to pursue that or enjoy the nice horse he is. My decision (as of this moment) is to continue to enjoy him myself, and if someone offers me enough to put a generous down-payment on a small farm (probably ~$50k), I'll sell. My dream of owning my own property is the one thing that trumps my dream of owning a really nice horse. At this point I'm not going to sink the money into sending him to a hunter trainer for 6months, but I'd consider it down the line.

*gontoast said: It's easy to say that when you know there is no way you will ever be offered a million dollars. Many many years ago I read an article in Practical Horseman that was about riders holding on to horses because they 'love them'. The quote I remember is "the horse you love does not love you". Sadly, I think this is the truth. An animal will adjust to a new owner and for that reason it is quite foolish to decline an enormous amount of money for an animal....unless.....you are so wealthy it doesn't matter. No. It's not like that. It's about goals and what makes you happy and where you are in life and what is important to you. I think it is very sensible and practical for people to sell their horses on if they get a humongous offer and that;s what they want to do. That does not seem to be the case here though. I wouldn't sell my 2 horses I have now for any amount of money any more than I would sell my mother. Why? because I don't think I have all that many years left to ride and I am not interested in replacing the ones I have. As for the money. MEH. it's just money. And no, I am far from wealthy.

n*rcisco said: I would sell my mother in a heartbeat if anyone were foolish enough to take her. My horses, I'll keep.

twc*labear said: Well if it makes you feel better, i have a similar offer. Except in my case, my boy is being a butt head to me, but apparently shows great potential when the leasee rides him. Leasee offered to buy him and save me the trouble of training and keeping him. Although I really want the money, I had my boy all his life too and I've decided to give him another 6mo with another trainer and if its still an issue then he's going up for sale. See even they are being poopers its hard to sell them :) But from reading your posts its not your case and your boy is being good. Give him a chance and see if you are happy, if not, I'm sure with his good looks he won't be lacking a home. Plus i'm sure carrots and pasture mates trump show ring and cameras any day in his book.

T*bias said: I would never take anywhere near 10K for a horse with GP potential. Seriously, if they offered you any less than 20K, they're just trying to screw you over. I agree, I would almost consider it an insult to you and your horse if someone offered only 10k for "GP Potential". and like others have said, Andi's are worth more than that without GP potential. If you were in your shoes, I wouldn't sell him if you love him. only I mean ONLY IF I can not afford him, then I would sell him to get him that kind of home. My horse has some potential, not much but just a sweet horse thats needs a job, I have always felt bad because he is just sitting because I cannot afford shows or anything fun. but he doesn't care, he is well fed and happy. I just can't afford the board anymore so sadly I need to find him a new home.

spr*nger said: I do not think the trainer is looking to resell this horse. I think she is looking for another horse to take to GP, because her GP horse is 19. I think the trainer has had a little bit of success and is likely over estimating this horse's potential for GP. That isn't the trainer's opinion, it is HER trainers' opinion. Kari McLain is a USDF judge and clinician from WA state. By the way, I've removed all of the links to my horses' photos. I never dreamed that this thread would receive so much attention, and it seems some of you are familiar with my trainer. I do not want her privacy violated. She is not a member of these forums so I apologize for putting those pics on here without her permission, in case she by now knows about it!!!!

*sdressage said: and, just so you know how easy it is - i watched a video of your horse. and he is worth way more than 10k (maybe double or triple that amount) he is a SUPER youngster) I watched the video too… really easy to find that stuff when you know who you're looking at. He is quite lovely in motion and coming along very well. Kudos to your horse and your trainer for that.

G*stalt said: I have had horses I really liked and then the ones I have loved. I would never sell one that I loved.

SFr*st said: It's easy to say that when you know there is no way you will ever be offered a million dollars. Many many years ago I read an article in Practical Horseman that was about riders holding on to horses because they 'love them'. The quote I remember is "the horse you love does not love you". Sadly, I think this is the truth. An animal will adjust to a new owner and for that reason it is quite foolish to decline an enormous amount of money for an animal....unless.....you are so wealthy it doesn't matter. I do not think the trainer is looking to resell this horse. I think she is looking for another horse to take to GP, because her GP horse is 19. I think the trainer has had a little bit of success and is likely over estimating this horse's potential for GP. My horse loving me or not has nothing to do with the fact that I would not sell him. I wouldn't sell him because I love him, the partnership I have with him is amazing, and he is a superstar of a horse. He can work cows, do reining, eventing, and trail riding. I worked long and hard to get him to where he is and I am not about to trade that for money, regardless of the sum. FWIW, several people have offered to buy my horse and I have always said no. The offers would have easily helped pay down student loans and would have made my fresh out of college life a lot easier. Selling him may have even been the "smart, logical" decision at the time, but I knew that he something I want in my life. So I never even considered the offers. Judge me if you want. All I know is that when I go galloping across the pasture with my guy or sail over jumps, those are moments I would never ever trade for money. So, while YOU may feel that all horses have a price, I do not. I know there are others who feel this way too. Just because you think it is foolish doesn't mean that it is.

S*sterToSoreFoot said: Amen, SFrost. I am a lifer too and I struggled $$ wise to keep my talented horse, a horse that would have fetched $$$$$ as a children's jumper. I never did, and never would have, sold him. For me, the joy of riding has always been wrapped up in the joy of the relationship with the particular horse. You get to a point where you know each other so well that cute little games and routines are established...it's priceless, and takes years to achieve. Of course, the OP's horse and her relationship with him is still young. She's trying to decide if she wants that lifetime commitment, or if she wants to let him go before she no longer can.

V*lentina_32926 said: I'd say "Make me an offer I can't refuse." And see what they come up with before refusing :D I agree with this - just see what they offer before turning them down. If they offer too little say no. If they offer 15K take it - you never know when youi need money like that, especially in this economy.

*nWhyCee Redux said: This has been my experience as well, though judging from the Iberian Yahoo group, you and I are the only ones who have encountered such Andalusians. They all swear their horses are gentle, sweet, kind, calm, never spook, stallions can tote children around bareback and bridleless across freeways... When I was in Spain, that's exactly the kind of Andalusians I rode — in the ring as well as on roads, beaches, cliffs, trails, cow pastures, you name it. I even drove (!) a very nice young Lusitano-cross down a four lane strip in downtown Seville — after informing the owner that I couldn't drive a car, let alone a horse. Maybe the Spanish are keeping the best ones for themselves and sending us the leftovers? ;)

M*rengo said: If he is a typical Andalusian, then he wont be happy just being a pasture ornament and being taken out every once in a while. Andys thrive on attention, work, and training. Andalusians get bored easily (which is why they like to figure out how to escape) and they love to be worked. Your Andy sounds similar. He might not care about going to shows, but he does care about having his own person to spend time and work with him daily. I humbly disagree. If this were the case then Spain and other Andi breeding countries have half their Andi population quietly going crazy. They don't ride the mares, they keep them for breeding so does that mean that all those unbroken Andi mares are desperate to get undersaddle and into the show ring? I think we flatter ourselves when we think that horses crave a job when 'job' refers to some kind of equestrian career. I think they're ok with being 'stay at home horses' in our backyards.

n*xtyear said: I humbly disagree. If this were the case then Spain and other Andi breeding countries have half their Andi population quietly going crazy. They don't ride the mares, they keep them for breeding so does that mean that all those unbroken Andi mares are desperate to get undersaddle and into the show ring? I think we flatter ourselves when we think that horses crave a job when 'job' refers to some kind of equestrian career. I think they're ok with being 'stay at home horses' in our backyards. Who said being a MOM is not a job???

*gontoast said: Good point Marengo about the stud farms.:cool: Who said being a MOM is not a job??? Go back and read the posts. Broodmare is not the type of job people were claiming andalusions absolutely require or else they will go jump off cliffs or something dire. I believe Marengo was responding to those claims and not demeaning the sacred toil of motherhood .:lol: Anyway, OPs horse is a gelding.

cd*lt said: I had a similar experience about 8 years ago - I had a wonderful 3 year old (first foal out of my homebred Dutch mare and by my favorite Grand Prix dressage stallion) that I sent to a very good local trainer to be started. I had bred this horse for myself (not to sell) but after a couple of months under saddle, the trainer told me that my horse was one of the best horses he had ever sat on and wanted to buy him for his wife - a very talented event rider who was interested in pursuing straight dressage. It was a tough decision to make, but in the end I sold him because I realized that I was not so young, had some health issues, was not very confident riding young green horses and did not have unlimited funds to keep him in training or have an instructor supervise all my rides on him. He is well loved and his owner/rider takes excellent care of him and has brought him along slowly and carefully. I just got to see his first Prix St. Georges test - he was a star and I was a very proud "mama". I loved him a lot and still do (and I sometimes wish I could be the one in the saddle on him) but I am realistic enough to know that I made the right decision by letting him go.

M*shach said: I had an UL event trainer/rider pretty aggressively try to get me to sell my horse to him even though I kept saying no. I would take lessons with him and then went up to VA (m'burg was his base) to do a weekend long xc clinic and he basically got on him to try him out (not that I knew he was trying him out, I thought he just gets on client's horses sometimes and um, jump *really* large fences ...). After that he stepped up the campaign, writing me a formal letter, etc. But in his letter, he offered a laughably low price. Finally, I wrote back and said he's not for sale but if I *were* to sell him, I would do it for no less than 40k. Only after that, did he leave me alone. :) I didn't sell him because I loved, loved, loved him. If I wasn't so attached, I probably would have negotiated.

*uventera Two said: My horse loving me or not has nothing to do with the fact that I would not sell him. I wouldn't sell him because I love him, the partnership I have with him is amazing, and he is a superstar of a horse. He can work cows, do reining, eventing, and trail riding. I worked long and hard to get him to where he is and I am not about to trade that for money, regardless of the sum. FWIW, several people have offered to buy my horse and I have always said no. The offers would have easily helped pay down student loans and would have made my fresh out of college life a lot easier. Selling him may have even been the "smart, logical" decision at the time, but I knew that he something I want in my life. So I never even considered the offers. Judge me if you want. All I know is that when I go galloping across the pasture with my guy or sail over jumps, those are moments I would never ever trade for money. So, while YOU may feel that all horses have a price, I do not. I know there are others who feel this way too. Just because you think it is foolish doesn't mean that it is. Amen to that. Mine are here for life. The stallion is just a total gem, one in a million. The mare I've had since weaning and we've come SO far. She's 100% amazing on every level. You only get so many chances to share a partnership with such amazing creatures. There isn't enough money in the world to trade for the rides and times I've had with both of them. And then there's my blessed Blondie. She'll be here until she takes her last breath because even though she's a quirky heifer, I love her to pieces. I just had to send Libbey over the bridge and it felt like losing a kid. Money is spent SO easily. In 30 minutes of total insanity, we signed away over $50,000 on a new truck. So even if somebody gave me $50,000 for either of the Arabs, I'd just spend it 30 minutes later. So no thanks. :)

*nWhyCee Redux said: The late Harry Aleo, owner of the late, great sprinter Lost in the Fog, when asked why he turned down $2 million-plus for the colt: ''There are more important things in the world than money.... If I sold him, what would I do with the money? I'd start looking around for another horse to buy.'' ;)

b*ck22 said: This isn't entirely relative but I jump at any chance to tell this true story::lol::lol::lol: A very dear friend once found a 3 day old orphan foal wandering around after a horse auction separated from its mother. Knowing it should be put down he's soft hearted and takes the foal home to raise it on his own. Fast forward 10 years, and he is riding and roping and enjoying what has grown into a huge, gorgeous, gorgeous jet black belgian, and the two of them are bonded closer than anyone can imagine. The horse has (to this day) obsessive loyalty to his owner. So a wealthy man shows up to the stable one day looking at sale horses and spots my friend practicing his rollbacks on this stunning fairytale horse. The man falls instantly in love with the horse and makes an offer. Thanks but no thanks my friend says, he's not for sale. The next weekend the man returns, doubles his offer. Thanks but no thanks my friend says, really, he's not for sale. The next weekend the man returns, triples the offer. I'm flattered, really, my friend responds, but this horse just isn't for sale. A few weeks go by and the wealthy man shows up again. My friend is in the parking lot getting ready to go out on a trail ride. The man walks up. Name your price he says to my friend, I'll pay anything, I must have that horse. My friend considers for a moment, dismounts, hands the reins to the wealthy man and says: Sir, at the end of this driveway there is a bridge, if you can ride my horse over that bridge, you can have him for free. The wealthy man, shocked and delighted, leaps into the saddle, gathers up mane and reins, digs his heels in deeply and launches the horse down the driveway, building as much speed as possible to race across the bridge. Just as the horse is nearing the bridge, my friend calls the horse's name. Hearing his owner's voice, the horse slams on the brakes, slides to a stop, front toes scattering pebbles across the bridge he never touches, as he sits down, rollsback over his hocks and comes racing back to his owner... stunned rider still aboard kicking and pulling for all he's worth to no avail. can't put a price on your pal. :D Sorry, I don't mean to insinuate anything, haven't even followed the thread, I just LOVE telling that story, especially since its about a dear friend and his unbelievable horse whom he still loves dearly to this day.

sh*whorsegallery said: This isn't entirely relative but I jump at any chance to tell this true story::lol::lol::lol: A very dear friend once found a 3 day old orphan foal wandering around after a horse auction separated from its mother. Knowing it should be put down he's soft hearted and takes the foal home to raise it on his own. Fast forward 10 years, and he is riding and roping and enjoying what has grown into a huge, gorgeous, gorgeous jet black belgian, and the two of them are bonded closer than anyone can imagine. The horse has (to this day) obsessive loyalty to his owner. So a wealthy man shows up to the stable one day looking at sale horses and spots my friend practicing his rollbacks on this stunning fairytale horse. The man falls instantly in love with the horse and makes an offer. Thanks but no thanks my friend says, he's not for sale. The next weekend the man returns, doubles his offer. Thanks but no thanks my friend says, really, he's not for sale. The next weekend the man returns, triples the offer. I'm flattered, really, my friend responds, but this horse just isn't for sale. A few weeks go by and the wealthy man shows up again. My friend is in the parking lot getting ready to go out on a trail ride. The man walks up. Name your price he says to my friend, I'll pay anything, I must have that horse. My friend considers for a moment, dismounts, hands the reins to the wealthy man and says: Sir, at the end of this driveway there is a bridge, if you can ride my horse over that bridge, you can have him for free. The wealthy man, shocked and delighted, leaps into the saddle, gathers up mane and reins, digs his heels in deeply and launches the horse down the driveway, building as much speed as possible to race across the bridge. Just as the horse is nearing the bridge, my friend calls the horse's name. Hearing his owner's voice, the horse slams on the brakes, slides to a stop, front toes scattering pebbles across the bridge he never touches, as he sits down, rollsback over his hocks and comes racing back to his owner... stunned rider still aboard kicking and pulling for all he's worth to no avail. can't put a price on your pal. :D Sorry, I don't mean to insinuate anything, haven't even followed the thread, I just LOVE telling that story, especially since its about a dear friend and his unbelievable horse whom he still loves dearly to this day. First, I find this story hard to believe. Second, I love my horse a ton, but if someone ever said "name your price" I would indeed sell her. She won't live forever, but a million dollars would go a long way in making the rest of MY life very comfortable.

b*ck22 said: I just had drinks over dinner with my friend in the last year and laughed about this story, and knew the team personally for years when I stabled and rode with them, I guarantee you the story is as it was told to me from the horse's mouth :lol::lol: though I wasn't witness, I never would doubt a world from my close friend. What makes this team so special is that the horse is an orphan, he cannot be handled by anyone other than his owner, he is near crazed with devotion and routinely goes through walls and fences to be with him. The poor man lives every day to serve his horse. A hazard of an animal to keep, but their bond is that strong. The horse would be unruly and miserable and probably quite dangerous with anyone other than its owner. It was easy for him to turn down any sum because the relationship with anyone else wouldn't be possible.

L*bera said: Well, that sucks for the horse if ever anything happens to his owner...