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15.5" Orthoflex Team Pen / Barrel Saddle
15.5" Orthoflex Team Pen / Barrel Saddle
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ORTHO FLEX WESTERN 15" SADDLE
ORTHO FLEX WESTERN 15" SADDLE
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Original Len Brown Performance OrthoFlex endurance saddle 15"
Original Len Brown Performance OrthoFlex endurance saddle 15"
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Original Ortho-Flex MO Made Bear Trap Trail Saddle Lightly Used 16"
Original Ortho-Flex MO Made Bear Trap Trail Saddle Lightly Used 16"
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Ortho Flex Western Saddle
Ortho Flex Western Saddle
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Orthoflex trail saddle, excellent shape!
Orthoflex trail saddle, excellent shape!
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Orthoflex Patriot  Endurance Saddle Len Brown original 16" with all accessories
Orthoflex Patriot Endurance Saddle Len Brown original 16" with all accessories
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Ortho-Flex UKCT 17" English Saddle
Ortho-Flex UKCT 17" English Saddle
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Related Ortho Flex information

Conformation opinions, please?

T*f_Ann said: http://www.flickr.com/photos/35468150159@N01/4478117840/ New project horse. She'll be 5 in July. She's approximately 15.1 hh which is the perfect height for my short legs. I'm a dressage rider who has an interest in eventing. She was a steal of a price, and was going to be a "start under saddle, sell to a good home" project. However, I see some potential. But I'd love to hear the unbiased opinions of those of you here - I've learned tons from most of you. I am realistically looking at doing 2nd or 3rd level - would be ecstatic with 4th, but doubt I'll even have the means to have a horse capable of much more than that. I don't foresee ever getting up to prelim in eventing, figured beginner novice but my trainers have said I should shoot for training level. So, thoughts on this girl?

G*stalt said: Have you ridden to 2nd or 3rd level before? This horse looks a bit rough. Any other pictures of her?

T*f_Ann said: Her neck isn't as short as it looks in the picture, either. And she definitely needs groceries, we're working on putting weight on her. She is very rough - she's literally been in a pasture her entire life and only handled maybe 4-5 times. Two weeks ago she was completely not halter broke. I spent 2+ hours tonight just detangling her tail. She's never been groomed, and her coat shows it. Heck, it took two weeks for her to even eat grain! Those are all things that good nutrition and grooming will help. My current horse is showing First this year, and we're schooling Second and Third. I'm not saying this is my "3rd or 4th level horse" but those are my long term goals. Like I said, she was purchased for a song as a project, but I'm wondering about her potential as a dressage horse/eventing horse.

T*f_Ann said: Video of her here: http://www.youtube.com/user/GentleSpiritHorses#p/u/7/tt9LvckJ5lk

G*stalt said: Oh that makes sense. In the pic she's as hairy as my horse. He's been in the pasture all winter! :) Needs some hoof care, but I bet she cleans up nice.

T*f_Ann said: Oh yes, absolutely, I'm in South Dakota and she's lived up near the North Dakota border. She's shedding like CRAZY. This picture was AFTER she was groomed TWICE LOL I just have found there are some really knowledgable people who can tell a lot from conformation. I've learned a lot, and *think* I see some good potential here. But I've been dying to get a decent side shot to get opinions here. Except for her weird neck, I'm hoping this works. Oh, and farrier is scheduled in three weeks, I figured halter breaking and picking up feet were important. They aren't so horrible that she's in risk of anything, and this way she'll be on the same schedule as my other horse and my sister's horses. :)

*qTrainer said: Has she had proper nutrition during her formative years? I ask because she has that short neck/big head look that horses get when they have not been fed enough/correctly to grow to their potential. After having gone that route a few times I will never do it again. I am considering breeding my next horse because I want one that has been fed right and dewormed correctly from the beginning. I am tired of dealing with the end result of poor care during pregnancy and youth. Anyway, that's what I have to say about that. Sorry if it seems very negative :(

C*ppers mom said: Her neck will look a million times better once you get her going. I hate that untouched, never done a thing look. It's so hard to keep reminding yourself that one day, it'll all look normal :lol: That being said, her neck is short and tied in low, which won't change with conditioning. It may interfere a little, she won't be able to balance as well (more important on XC, I think). Her pole is also a little short, which some say can limit how well they flex. But, her throat latch doesn't seem thick, so I wouldn't worry about it too much. Her longer back coupled with a little bit small of an engine may make it harder to use herself, but that can be overcome with conditioning. I like her legs, she looks sturdy and well put together. Her faults are minor (and the picture does make her neck look shorter), but I think she'll be really cute when she's all cleaned up :)

P*tstorejunkie said: I think that asking for 2nd/3rd is asking beyond what her body can do happily. If you are taking her on to make her a nice horse for someone else (resale) I'd give her a nice foundation in dressage thru first, get her comfortable going two foot over courses and give her a career as a nice little C hunter. her low tie in for her neck, totally verticle shoulder, and her steep croup are 3 strikes to upper level dressage work in competition.

T*f_Ann said: No worries - that's the kind of thing I'm here for. I've learned SO much here, and know there are people here with much more experience than me. That said, my understanding is she's literally been a pasture horse. Her original owner was knowledgable and had nice horses, including her mother, but sometime in the last couple of years he moved to Georgia and left her and her mother with his brother in law who owned seven horses. I know this past winter she was only fed hay. The owner isn't coming back anytime soon, and the brother-in-law has sold all his horses, so she was put up for sale. So it's possible she had decent nutrition as a baby, but for the last couple of years, just hay and grass. Her head is actually pretty small in real life - I'm using a cob bridle and had to adjust it down from my 14.3 hh mustang's size - he has a longer nose. But that gives me something to research!

T*f_Ann said: Thanks Coppersmom - I can't wait to see her fill out and muscle up some. I think it's going to make a big difference. Petstorejunkie - your comments are in line with what my gut is telling me will probably be the plan for her. She actually has very nice movement at liberty and has nice reach laterally, so I'm hoping to do 2nd but my gut has been saying she'll probably top out at 1st. She's AQHA so if dressage takes off there she will hopefully be resellable. I noticed the shoulder in the pictures too - for some reason it's not as obvious in real life. That's why I like pictures and posted here!

*gontoast said: Honestly I would just focus on bringing her into better health and condition before even thinking about what she might do after that. I'd start with a fecal test and go from there. She does not have the best conformation but that is the least of her problems right now.

T*f_Ann said: Oh - absolutely egontoast - that's the current plan. Weight first, along with ground work, and grooming. I can't wait until the wash rack opens up and she gets her first bath. She's been dewormed with Quest Plus and is getting alfalfa cubes, sweet feed (that's what I had on hand), flax seed, and cool calories - along with round bales of alfalfa mix hay in her pasture, and grass is coming up - right now. I'm picking up more for her on Thursday - debating giving her Mare and Foal and picking up a multivitamin for her. She is scheduled for a vet check soon, and will have her teeth floated if needed and wolf teeth pulled.

n*tg said: I think her moving video showed more promise than her conformation shot. She's built like a typical short-strided quarter horse (I say this as a QH fan... just not a fan of "typical" QH for dressage) but she moved more nicely than that in your short clip. The hip and shoulder angles both indicate she'd have a short stride and not be the greatest mover for anything in an English saddle, but she's much lighter on her feet than I expected. Just from that picture, and from what you said which makes her temperament sound good - I would think more of getting her broke as a youth horse, whether for showing or not. I've been around many 5 year old quarter horses who were great kid horses with very little training in them - that's just the common gentle and mellow temperament.

T*f_Ann said: Netg - it's her movement that has shocked me. She reaches very well, is light at the trot, and her canter has a nice rock to it. Our arena is very hard right now - my dressage trainer kept commenting on how it needs to be drug, but it's barely spring in South Dakota - haven't been able to drag it in months! In pasture, though, she has a lot more "spring" (suspension) to her trot. She's also bred for speed, and is very, very smart and naturally curious, which are good things for eventing. I see her potential more as an eventing prospect than pure dressage. There are a few other videos of her, but until she's lunging nicely and consistently they are sporadic since we have a big arena. :)

c*te_lil_fancy_pants_pony said: Was she a rescue? PMU?

T*f_Ann said: Was she a rescue? PMU? Depends on your definition of rescue :) She wasn't abused, she's just unhandled. Not "neglected" per se, just ... not a high level of care. She's had her spring shots every year and been on pasture, and given hay in the winter. Maybe had her feet done once in her life, and they are surprisingly in decent shape. She was listed on the local classifieds for a while, and she looks a LOT like the QH I just sent off to be a trail horse (15 with wobbles), and when her price hit the point that someone would very likely grab her and take her to auction, where as an unhandled, unregistered four year old she'd ship to slaughter, I decided at that price I could hardly go wrong with a project horse. Figured worst case scenario she'd make a good trail horse for someone. So no, not a real rescue, just a purchase. She's thin, her coat is rough, her tail was one big knot, she had no idea what grain was - would eat corn though - and has never had a treat in her life. But she's very, very smart, doesn't take more than two tries for her to learn something and she doesn't forget it, and loves attention. Two weeks ago (when I got her) she didn't understand how to lead and would only back up when asked to go forward, today she accepted a rider for the first time, and ties as well as any horse in the barn. Day two it took 2+ hours to catch her in a small pen, ever since she's come up to me in pasture and gladly accepted her halter. She's even starting to come to her name. She lunges at the walk both directions, and will pick up the trot on a vocal cue ... but we haven't quite mastered staying in the trot. :) In the 17 days I've owned her, she's been handled/worked with perhaps 14 times. I have her breeder's certificate and tail hairs from her mother, and will be registering her next month which will also help her value.

D*nella said: Any sound horse can do up to fourth level if you are on the right program and you are very aware of your horses weaknesses and deal with them in the right way AND if you are a competant trainer/rider AND if the horse is good mentally. Nothing horrible stands out with your mare. I like to see the horse stood up so the hind cannon bone is perfectly perpendicular to the ground...and then I can comment on her angles behind. The photograph should also be taken right at the center of her body so there is no distortion and she should be stood straight so that her bum is not closer to the camera than the front end. Her movement is pretty limited, but big gaits do not a dressage horse make if you are just wanting to have fun and progress up the levels. If she is good behind then that is really what matters most. I would like to see a pic of her posed how I described above.

*asyStreet said: At first look at the photo IMO her neck is to shorrt and back very long. She appears to be turned out on RF and her angles on hind pastern to hoof seem a bit off. That said the video of her was very redeeming. Was the video and photo taken at the same period in her life? She appears in better condition in the video. Anyway I have seen my daughter take on horses that I thought would never amount to much and with time, love, consistant work and alot of groceries:lol:turned out wonderfully. Good luck on your journey with her!!

T*f_Ann said: The video was taken two weeks ago ... the photo last night. The main difference is she's shedding and being groomed regularly. Winter coats hide a lot of ribs - I knew she'd be very ribby when the coat started coming out. South Dakota winters are hard on horses - and she looks like she's going to be one that requires extra feed or at least a heavy alf mix to maintain in the winter. I'm also stirring up a ton of dirt with the grooming :) She's also been turned out to the big pasture since that video, so she has some bites and kicks. Another thing on my shopping list for tomorrow is MTG to help the hair grow back! :) She has probably dropped a little weight - not that she could afford to - because of the stress of moving and the new herd. She absolutely refused to eat any grain for the first two weeks, and was leaving hay in her pen while she was in. We also have green grass popping up and they are leaving the round bales to go eat that - and March grass in South Dakota has little to any nutritional value. So I'm supplementing with soaked alfalfa cubes which she LOVES and she's finally eating grain so I'm able to get some more calories and supplements in her. Spin off: thoughts on feeding a coming 5 yr old Mare & Foal? I imagine the extra vitamins and nutrition could only help her... we typically do senior feed for our horses that need to gain, but she's so young I'm thinking Mare & Foal might be a better choice. Thoughts?

*SB Stars said: I agree with Egon. You need to get her into some kind of order, and then, let her tell you what she wants to be. Dressage will improve any horse, but it may not be her calling, as a career. For me, she is built way high behind, to have an easy time of it. I compare riding this type of conformation as pushing a wheelbarrow. You feel like their front end is in a hole, because what is behind you is so damn high. That said, I had a Candian TB gelding who learned all the tricks through GP, who was high crouped. He was not going to be competitive, so we stayed home after first, but he could mechanically do the work.

T*f_Ann said: I agree with Egon. You need to get her into some kind of order, and then, let her tell you what she wants to be. Dressage will improve any horse, but it may not be her calling, as a career. For me, she is built way high behind, to have an easy time of it. I compare riding this type of conformation as pushing a wheelbarrow. You feel like their front end is in a hole, because what is behind you is so damn high. That said, I had a Candian TB gelding who learned all the tricks through GP, who was high crouped. He was not going to be competitive, so we stayed home after first, but he could mechanically do the work. Agreed on the health/weight. We've been debating if she's butt high, since she's young and QHs are still growing at this age - and we've had a couple other horses come to us at this age and in this condition who have grown another 2-4 inches with good nutrition. So until we know she's done growing that's a very valid point!

T*f_Ann said: PS - you can see in the picture she has two feed bins in front of her. One was her alf cubes, the other the feed/oil/cool calories/flax seed combination. Last night was the first night she finished both - she's been leaving half of what I gave her.

n*tg said: Spin off: thoughts on feeding a coming 5 yr old Mare & Foal? I imagine the extra vitamins and nutrition could only help her... we typically do senior feed for our horses that need to gain, but she's so young I'm thinking Mare & Foal might be a better choice. Thoughts? Definitely Mare & Foal. I had a rescue who was about 300 lbs underweight and had been nursing a baby. The woman who I got her from kept the baby and had been giving senior feed to try to put on weight since both were in bad shape when she got them. It didn't make much difference to her weight but made her slightly crazy with energy. Mare and Foal helped her, and is made to help put on weight without the health risks some "get weight on fast" diets can have.

Th*mas_1 said: I'm not going to comment in detail on the horse's conformation other than to say that there's a lot wanting. Reason why..... The most important thing to concentrate on is her general health and well being. She's in desperate need of some calories and basic care including foot maintenance and attention. She looks like a good rotational worming programme wouldn't go amiss. You really do need to get some good support and veterinary advice to help you to get her in better condition. I'm seriously struggling to imagine that this particular horse will help you with your ridden ambition. She's not striking me as dressage horse potential whatsoever.

sp*tted mustang said: first of all, cheers to you for taking her on! she's not exactly at her best right now. Once she's had some groceries, wormer, grooming and foot care and has been started under saddle, you'll be in a better position to judge what she might be capable of, conformational flaws or not. I hope we'll see pics of her once she' s blossomed a bit. I bet she'll look like a different horse then. How's her personality?

b*ck22 said: haven't read most of the replies, and I'm not a high level rider, but saw the vid and I really like her actually. I had a quarter pony just like her... he wasn't spectacular to look at (well, a handsome red dun), but he was long backed, short necked, thick throatlatch and a big clunky head, with a steep shoulder, and an overall bulldog appearance. And he was really butt high, at 9yrs old, 2 inches higher at the butt. But my goodness he had reach and natural ability that defied his confo. I mean seriously, he was a little pistol, could collect, turn, reach, extend. I remember when I first got him, and he was a bolshy pig-head, I was working on foot control and I was floored how deeply underneath himself he could step. I was so impressed I agreed to take him on for that reason alone, he could just stick a hind leg anywhere underneath him and lift and pivot. That back would lift and those long abs just go to work and ripple. I'd never seen an out of work nothing horse do that before, just summon that ability on demand. And boy howdy he could jump. And smooth as glass ride. Absolutely defied his confo in nearly every way. Really a neat neat pony. I adored him, really regret selling him now that I have an interest in dressage.

*sdressage said: I also like the quick video clip, and I like what you've said about how little handling she's had, yet she seems to be taking to the attention quite well. She has a kind eye, too, which means a lot in my book. I'd love to see more photos few months from now, when she's blossoming under your obviously attentive and doting care! :) You mention her neck isn't as short as it looks in the photo, and overall I expect her to look quite a bit better once she's in better health. It's hard to say how far you'll be able to take her, but she really does float right along in that video. The beautiful thing about dressage to me is the journey, and I think you'll have a lot of fun on your journey with Nya (great name, by the way), wherever it takes you.

*qTrainer said: She needs good quality protein and probably a higher level of minerals for a while... and to be dewormed, dewormed, dewormed.. and then dewormed again...

T*f_Ann said: Re: her health and condition - trust me, she's in the right place for that. My sister and I have vast experience rehabbing and working with rescues and problem horses. I think that's why her condition doesn't affect me as much as you guys - I know what it takes to fix it and know she'll be fine in a couple months. :) For reference, I've uploaded a couple pictures of my current dressage horse and my sister's horse when we first got them. If you read the thread by Rescue_Pony asking for opinions on her T1 test, the horse in that video is the same as the thin black one here. These pictures are three and a half years ago, in August - so no excuse for thinness! http://www.flickr.com/photos/35468150159@N01/?saved=1 Nya had to learn to even EAT grain first, and I was seriously struggling to figure out how to get weight and nutrients into her if she wouldn't eat anything but hay. Alfalfa cubes were the first thing she really went for, and then a bran mash, and now she's eating grain as well. I did pick up Nutrena Compete today - higher protein and fat content than the sweet feed I had on hand, with extra vitamins. We already do rotational deworming, and she got Quest Plus before being turned out. Really - she's in very good hands as far as that part goes. :) I will absolutely keep updating as she fills out and progresses. I love projects and will gladly talk about them! As for personality - she's got a great personality. She learns FAST, very intelligent. It only takes 2-3 repetitions of something and she has it. I've had her 2.5 weeks now. She backed off the trailer because she didn't know how to be lead. Not halter broke in the least. Reared as we increased the pressure. 2.5 weeks later she ties and you can walk away. If she happens to pull at all, she instantly gives to the pressure and holds still. Not really spooky. When she does spook, she's an "in place" spooker ... and then wants to examine whatever spooked her. Very curious. She's taken everything we've thrown at her in stride, even the 2+ hours it took me to detangle her tail last night, and the braiding her mane to the other side (she has flaky/dry skin underneath her mane, I wanted to get that exposed to the air and conditioned, and treat it if it was fungal), the saddle, the bridle and bit, even weight on her back. We're not going to push the riding until she's got more weight on though. She also LOVES attention. She's not a food motivated horse, but will do just about anything for scratches, especially on her cheeks. She's confident, but not a bully. And she's loving. Last night, when I turned her out to pasture, she stopped and pressed her head against my chest and just held it there. It wasn't rude or disrespectful (she stays out of my space) ... it very much felt like a hug. Pretty easy to melt like that! She's bred decent, here's her pedigree: http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/nigh+a+whispering+wind That is not the name we are sending in on her papers so I'm going to have to get that updated when I have an approved name. If all goes well, her AQHA registered name will be Nya Angeleo. I really appreciate all the comments and you've pointed out a lot of things. I love this forum for the helpfulness and knowledge. For those who want to see more of her movement - which is what makes me go "where did that come from" - there are more videos here: http://www.youtube.com/gentlespirithorses

T*f_Ann said: Oh - and one thing the videos show - if you look at the video of my pinto lunging you would never guess he's showing First and schooling 2nd/3rd. He was doing a great impression of a cow pony ;) He has reach and extension to die for, but not that day!

n*tg said: The more you talk about her, the more I like her! She definitely doesn't move like I expected from the photo. After watching all your videos of her, I'm not sure that she'll ever be a super high scoring mover (though horses always surprise - that's part of their fun!) but she still moves nicely. She doesn't look downhill while going either - her hocks look nicely set under her and she seems to push off well, despite indications making it seem like she might not from the photo. I definitely look forward to hearing more about how she develops with you!

*notherRound said: I don't see much to recommend her except she looks like probably a nice horse to have and ride. Any horse does well with dressage basics and she probably will. Her condition is sort of :uhoh: and I'm sort of surprised you didn't wait 4 weeks and post pics of her tidies up a bit. Her conformation is poor but you seem happy so rock on.

m*nicabee said: One advantage of posting pictures like that is that she will definitely improve in appearance in just a few months. She's not stamped from the sport horse mould, but some stock-type horses do better at dressage than you might expect. If she's got a willing attitude and a level head for eventing, then you'll likely be very happy with her. Having been raised only on hay and grass is not the worst thing in the world - in fact, it can be the optimum way, as long as there is enough of both plus minerals to build strong bones. A heavy worm load would be a worry, but that's not necessarily the reason she's thin. If she was turned out with a herd, she may just not have been high enough in the hierarchy to get her share of hay over the winter. Like you, I have seen a lot of rescue horses, and so her condition looks very fixable. Her motivation to stay in the trot will likely change as she gains weight and energy! Have fun with her.

T*f_Ann said: Thanks. Again, re: her condition - yes she's thin, yes she needs her feet trimmed ... but where do you all live that your horses don't come out of winter with long fuzzy dull coats? By now most of us are just itching for the wash rack to unthaw and it to be warm enough to bathe our horses because they are all so dirty - even the ones who are blanketed! For example - my previous QH that is living with mom and doing trails now - here he is about this time last spring: http://www.flickr.com/photos/35468150159@N01/4113426328/ and then just a few months later, all shedded out and shiny from the summer: http://www.flickr.com/photos/35468150159@N01/4113426360/ Now, I realize he's not as dull as her, but he is also blanketed most of the winter - but he's rough and fuzzy and doesn't look like much of anything in the spring ;) She was in a herd of 9, she's pretty dominant, but it was a rough winter here and she didn't get anything but hay. Here's a picture of her from late fall - not the best, but it's all I have: http://www.flickr.com/photos/35468150159@N01/4482233904/ I'm very confident she will gain the weight, and her winter coat color is very similar to my other QHs color, so I expect she'll be as copper as him and shiny as him before long. I guess I've always just looked beyond what I can fix - weight, muscling, coat - and try to see what is actually there to work with. And if she's only going to be a resale project ... I don't want to get as attached as I would one that I would keep. I really like her - so that's why I posted for unbiased conformation opinions :) Oh - and her energy level is really good. She's loving her new big pasture and runs all over it :)

C*ppers mom said: I don't see much to recommend her except she looks like probably a nice horse to have and ride. Any horse does well with dressage basics and she probably will. Her condition is sort of :uhoh: and I'm sort of surprised you didn't wait 4 weeks and post pics of her tidies up a bit. Her conformation is poor but you seem happy so rock on. I kind of enjoy seeing pictures when horses are like this, and then pictures of later on when they've been in training and gotten a little TLC. I also don't think her condition is all that bad. She's dull and dirty and could use a little weight, but certainly nothing that would make me go and call animal control. She's just never been touched, and it shows in her lack of muscle. I also disagree that her conformation is poor. Is she a stunner? No, but there is nothing absolutely wrong about her. I would put her in the more "Ok, it's workable" category, not the conformational train wreck one. Conformation and movement don't make a dressage horse, it's the training. She carries herself well, and I don't see anything that would stop her from being able to do a little shoulder in, leg yield, a lead change, etc. 2nd level isn't all that difficult, and it's usually the rider that holds a pair back, not the horse ;)

T*f_Ann said: Thanks Coppers Mom - I've actually gotten a lot of good from this thread. I hadn't noticed her vertical shoulder - keep getting caught up in her movement - but now just looking around at the well bred QHs I've noticed hers is very typical for a QH around here. I never really noticed how vertical my PREVIOUS QH was :) The one thing I see that not many have commented on is she's a bit ewe-necked, but it seems that can be fixed with training. Her fall picture doesn't really show it, so it could be just a weight thing. The croup - again - not something I was as familiar with, so that was great to learn. Some good things I see, but I'm still trying to learn and train my eye for conformation - her front legs are set decent - not as far underneath her as many QHs, so that's good. The picture makes her look a little camped under - I'm going to have to watch that and see if her legs are really like that or if she was just leaning. She is really hard to square up - obviously hasn't been taught it :) From the front, she appears a little toed out. The picture didn't upload and I seem to have left my phone at home. I don't want to judge that until she's trimmed though. I've recently started helping another family with their green horses, and they hadn't had their feet done in six months, and one of them was horribly overgrown and very toed out - I was worried about damage to the tendons. One decent trim and that corrected itself. So I'm not going to worry about that until her feet are balanced. Her back end - I found that the back end shot did get uploaded (mind you, these are from my phone!) so here that is: http://www.flickr.com/photos/35468150159@N01/4482342672/ She needs muscling, of course. Her whithers are decent, but perhaps set a bit too far forward and over the front legs. So ... like I said ... I'm learning and trying to become better at conformation and love the comments because it's a great way to learn! Like I've said from the start - my gut tells me she's going to be a better eventing prospect than pure dressage. She does have very nice lateral reach while working with her on the ground, so I don't think lateral work - leg yield, shoulder in, etc., are going to be a big problem. My sister and I did free jump her - only 2' - and she has decent form that can be developed, plus she made it look easy. I've seen enough horses lumber over the 2' mark that this is encouraging to me. Spinoff - I found this chart - what are the thoughts on this is a reference? http://www.dressageco.com/DressageCompany/SelectDressAnatomy.gif

T*f_Ann said: One more thing - about the dullness - and really, I'm not making excuses, because she DOES need the basics - but my camera on my phone really does dull things down. If you go through the flickr account I'm sure you can tell with one glance which pictures were taken from my camera phone!

T*mara in TN said: http://www.flickr.com/photos/35468150159@N01/4478117840/ So, thoughts on this girl? she's straight shouldered and has some pretty closed elbows...so no extension and no swing from the shoulders and her hips are short and her hocks are tall...she does have a low tail, but not enough "gear" to do much with it...and she will always travel with a level topline...she has a common face and a short neck so you will not have a fulcrum to work with... her bone is not bad and I would not see her breaking down with work suited to her...her feet are terrible and should be balanced better...sucky feet below alters the conformation above and vice versa... in other words, another typical western moving animal...not suited for collection or extension but who should be a good suitable "kick and go pony" most of her life Tamara in TN